When did this team go soft ?

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No desire, 4th oldest squad, no playmaker, can't defend set pieces and on and on. It up to the players now. I couldn't even give you a man of the match today they all looked disjointed.
 
Tubey said:
Long before then.
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I think it started with Moyes tbh. He was a massive proponent of the class and dignity defence mechanism, as well as a raging bible basher with an aversion to any type of gamesmanship whatsoever.

It's no surprise that we have failed to win a single game at Anfield since Moyes arrived. The last time we won there we had a Walter Smith side, who despite being crap did not give a single toss about Anfield and its bellend atmosphere. Franny Jeffers was punching their keeper and everything. We have bent over and been bummed from behind ever since then.
 
dannyboy said:
Come off it. We might not have won the pivotal games but there'd always be a reaction from there.

Under Moyes you could at least guarantee a response.
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Nope.

I mean, it'd be a "yes" if you were talking about Moyes' early years, but the last five - no, we were soft then, because the manager became soft.
 

Dymak said:
I think it started with Moyes tbh. He was a massive proponent of the class and dignity defence mechanism, as well as a raging bible basher with an aversion to any type of gamesmanship whatsoever.

It's no surprise that we have failed to win a single game at Anfield since Moyes arrived. The last time we won there we had a Walter Smith side, who despite being crap did not give a single toss about Anfield and its bellend atmosphere. Franny Jeffers was punching their keeper and everything. We have bent over and been bummed from behind ever since then.
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That's actually what I meant - with Moyes, but long before he actually left.
 
Tubey said:
Nope.

I mean, it'd be a "yes" if you were talking about Moyes' early years, but the last five - no, we were soft then, because the manager became soft.
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They were still a very good side. You could turn up confident on a Saturday afternoon we were going to snot the likes of Sunderland etc without them getting a sniff.

I don't know many teams from that era who would come off the pitch and say that was an easy win we got against Everton today.
 
dannyboy said:
They were still a very good side. You could turn up confident on a Saturday afternoon we were going to snot the likes of Sunderland etc without them getting a sniff.

I don't know many teams from that era who would come off the pitch and say that was an easy win we got against Everton today.
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The side was more balanced, they were not any less soft. They lacked bottle in a big way due to the mentality of the manager.

Any suggestion we weren't soft under Moyes in his last five or so years here is an attempt to rewrite history and forget the constant bottling of big games.

This side is just as soft as Moyes's later year teams, but have the added disability of having no balance at all.
 
Tubey said:
The side was more balanced, they were not any less soft. They lacked bottle in a big way due to the mentality of the manager.

Any suggestion we weren't soft under Moyes in his last five or so years here is an attempt to rewrite history and forget the constant bottling of big games.

This side is just as soft as Moyes's later year teams, but have the added disability of having no balance at all.
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Bottling of big games/consistently losing against teams with far better players than us. Look at it whichever you wish to.
 

Tubey said:
The side was more balanced, they were not any less soft. They lacked bottle in a big way due to the mentality of the manager.

Any suggestion we weren't soft under Moyes in his last five or so years here is an attempt to rewrite history and forget the constant bottling of big games.

This side is just as soft as Moyes's later year teams, but have the added disability of having no balance at all.
Click to expand...

Last 5 years under Moyes:

5th, 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th with 60 points on average. We only lost 7 games in the league in his final season.
 
We started leaking goals badly towards the end of Martinez's first season. Everyone else sussed us pretty quickly and we had no answer. I think we are suffering from that at the moment. Koeman has a huge task on his hands. I hope we find better signings than we have seen from him so far. I hope the youngsters coming through develop into the real deal.

It may get a lot worse before it gets any better...
 
Probably when we signed no one for about 5 years and the club seemed to shrug it's collective shoulders and be happy with treading water.

No one from the top down has put any pressure on
 
How the bottom of the table would look - on 10 game Current Form - with 3 or 4 games to go:

(Arsenal and Chelsea would be fighting it out for the title, level but Chavs game in hand, clear of the RS and City, Spurs 5th)

3 to play unless stated

12 Burnley 37
13 Boro 35 (4)
14 Everton 34
15 Leicester 31 (4)
16 Palace 31
17 Sunderland 31
----------------------------
18 West Ham 30 (4)
19 Swansea 28
20 Hull 22
 

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