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We need to talk about Nottingham Forest.

Final position

  • Top 4

    Votes: 21 7.8%

  • Other European Qualification

    Votes: 70 25.9%

  • Top 10 outside Europe

    Votes: 53 19.6%

  • Complete capitulation bottom half.

    Votes: 126 46.7%
  • Total voters
    270

davek said:
The feller did his bit then stood aside without ego to let someone else finish the job off as he'd done all he could that season and he didn't want to chance the future of the club by staying on.

You cant ask for more than that.
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Standing aside without ego would have required him to resign. He didn't. But you do you.
 
Saint Domingo said:
Well half of it is just to rage bait some in here who foam at the mouth at the mention of his name.

I give him credit for keeping us up from the horrendous situation we were in in Jan 23. That was his biggest achievement in my view. There was one poor team that year in Southampton. That Leicester team and Leeds teams were not that bad. I think we had t the 19th worst squad that year, and it got decimated further by injuries to Calvert Lewin. This fixture list was horrendous and yet he kept the club up.

He could do what he liked after that point as far as I was concerned as in Jan 23 when Lampard was fired, Gordon sold, no striker brought in, Arsenal at Goodison next, and then Calvert Lewin gets injured, I thought we were gone.

That would have meant no Friedkins, no new stadium, or we’d have to sell it and lease it back, fire sale of all player assets, administration and further points deductions. We weren’t far off not being able to pay people as it was so we’d have probably been wound up.

Dyche prevented all that by taking a job that Bielsa turned his nose up at. So yeah I forgive some of the stuff that occurred in his final season when there really were three poor teams.

People brush off his 23/24 season because there were three worst teams but at one point w head 10 point deduction with the prospect of another hanging over us. To take a team that had been in two consecutive relegation battles and shrug that off without letting it cause a death spiral was good management, so was the 48 points achieved with those players.

It can all be revised away now as there were three worst teams but it’s just historical revisionism. The threat to this club was real at the time and Dyche dealt with it. Couldn’t care less if everyone hated him for doing it. We’re all enjoying a shiny new Everton now full of nice things because he grafted in the absolute mud to keep this club going.
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And what about the death spiral he had us in before he was let go?
 
canuckblue said:
Standing aside without ego would have required him to resign. He didn't. But you do you.
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That's a simplistic way of looking at how these decisions are made.

Why should Dyche have left the cash he deserved?

In reality he and TFG came to a sensible decision over terms of dismissal to reflect his efforts here.

All the rest is breast-beating nonsense.
 
"Players were dwindling a little bit, the heat was coming on and I thought a change of face would work and it has done".

If this is an accurate quote, there is an awful lot to consider.
  • Who's job is it to prevent 'dwindling'?
  • 'the heat' is that the pressure down the relegation zone? Which players were caving? name names oh Sultan of scotch egg.
  • 'a change of face would work', this is smug, taking credit for Moyes stepping in and turning 19th place form round to top 6.
Incredulous. Also didn't step down, threw his arms up in a hissy fit about players not responding and took the sack meaning his contract paid up and then came back for his maintaining PL survival bonus after he'd thrown the towel in. Credit for saving the Lampard mess, yes. Criticism for overseeing a similar situation to the Lampard mess, yes. Also worth noting that monies paid for sub standard players from a couple of previous managers goes in his favour, when we were relying on mostly awful loans the one he got a tune out of (Mangala) goes and does his ACL. Perfect storm of bad luck there.
 

davek said:
That's a simplistic way of looking at how these decisions are made.

Why should Dyche have left the cash he deserved?

In reality he and TFG came to a sensible decision over terms of dismissal to reflect his efforts here.

All the rest is breast-beating nonsense.
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At least you admit as much.
 
Rita_Poon said:
"Players were dwindling a little bit, the heat was coming on and I thought a change of face would work and it has done".

If this is an accurate quote, there is an awful lot to consider.
  • Who's job is it to prevent 'dwindling'?
  • 'the heat' is that the pressure down the relegation zone? Which players were caving? name names oh Sultan of scotch egg.
  • 'a change of face would work', this is smug, taking credit for Moyes stepping in and turning 19th place form round to top 6.
Incredulous. Also didn't step down, threw his arms up in a hissy fit about players not responding and took the sack meaning his contract paid up and then came back for his maintaining PL survival bonus after he'd thrown the towel in. Credit for saving the Lampard mess, yes. Criticism for overseeing a similar situation to the Lampard mess, yes. Also worth noting that monies paid for sub standard players from a couple of previous managers goes in his favour, when we were relying on mostly awful loans the one he got a tune out of (Mangala) goes and does his ACL. Perfect storm of bad luck there.
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The gaffer's got you lot in a spin.

He's like the bogey man waiting to get you on Saturday afternoon and you're running round screaming like stuck pigs already.

Lol.
 
canuckblue said:
And what about the death spiral he had us in before he was let go?
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Even Moyes came in and said there wasn’t much wrong.

It also doesn’t work both ways. You can’t look back on 23/24 and say that it doesn’t count much what he did with the points deductions because there were three rubbish teams that year, only to then ignore how rubbish the teams in 24/25 were.

The situations in Jan 23 and Jan 25 were completely different. Almost everyone thought we were down in 23. Every man and his dog knew we weren’t getting relegated in 25. We’d had a bad start in no part down to the utter divvy Michael Keane throwing away two winning positions, and injuries to Branthwaite and Garner, but everyone could see all the way upto the takeover that the team was still running for the manager and still got draws against the top teams before Dyche left. The new owners came in and his contract was never going to be extended, he became a lame duck at that point and the players phoned it in the last two matches because they could. It was the right thing to part ways at the time.

The idea that he left the club in the same perilous position he found it though is utterly ridiculous.
 

Has a squad with attacking talent and better depth than at Everton, but undoubtably brought back the stability.

They are 2-3 years further in the process with building a substainable squad
 
Saint Domingo said:
Even Moyes came in and said there wasn’t much wrong.

It also doesn’t work both ways. You can’t look back on 23/24 and say that it doesn’t count much what he did with the points deductions because there were three rubbish teams that year, only to then ignore how rubbish the teams in 24/25 were.

The situations in Jan 23 and Jan 25 were completely different. Almost everyone thought we were down in 23. Every man and his dog knew we weren’t getting relegated in 25. We’d had a bad start in no part down to the utter divvy Michael Keane throwing away two winning positions, and injuries to Branthwaite and Garner, but everyone could see all the way upto the takeover that the team was still running for the manager and still got draws against the top teams before Dyche left. The new owners came in and his contract was never going to be extended, he became a lame duck at that point and the players phoned it in the last two matches because they could. It was the right thing to part ways at the time.

The idea that he left the club in the same perilous position he found it though is utterly ridiculous.
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Two points above the drop zone. If that's not perilous, I don’t know what is. And to say 23 and 25 weren't the same means you're cherry picking to suit your agenda, the same thing you accuse me and others of doing. There's no way in hell you could have been certain of our survival last season the way he had us playing. It would have only taken one of those teams below us last year to be merely mediocre and we were down.
I get it -- you love the guy even if you admit half of what you're saying is rage bait. But he didn't lead us on some epic 10-game winning streak to keep us safe and he had us nosediving to the Championship, so forgive me if I don't worship at the altar of Saint Sean.
 

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