Confirmed Signing Vitaliy Mykolenko

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Exactly.

People seem to think that Simms and Dobbin would have slotted in seamlessly and maybe bagged a few goals and played at a similar level to DCL or Richarlison.

I’ll forecast a far more likely scenario. Dobbin and Simms, both battling fitness issues, would have started games, they might have had a good half of football, maybe even a good game, maybe even two, and then their form would have dipped (as it does for nearly every young player). Even more likely is that being thrown into a team in an injury crisis playing poorly would result in them barely getting a sniff of the ball and having a horrendous start to their careers. No doubt the fans would then be saying ‘why did Benitez buy Rondon to not play him ffs, an experienced PL forward should be getting played rather than letting these kids take the blame for his failings’

Now consider that this fan base had issues with Lukaku Stones and Barkley, called DCL a championship chump for a few seasons, and is currently still moaning about Gordon despite him coming on leaps and bounds.

Now Dobbin and Simms are probably nowhere near the level of these players (or at least not yet) and yet people are claiming that throwing them in not fully fit into one of the most poisonous atmospheres at Everton in a long time is a good idea to start their senior careers? Imagine those lads going onto social media after those games.

Now balance all this against a seasoned old pro like Rondon who needs fitness and has enough experience to take the inevitable fan backlash that has come his way. He even managed to improve drastically during this period.

Fortunately Benitez seems to have a brain and experience that stops him from doing stupid stuff that the fan base would like him to.

I'm sorry mate, but this is insulting to people's intelligence.

Rondon has not "improved massively". He has scored 1 goal, from 4 inches in 12 games. He is nowhere near good enough. I'd go as far as to say, he's the worst player I've ever seen take to the pitch for us. At Brentford, he couldn't even be bothered to clap the fans.

Simms and Dobbin showed more in 1 game, than he has all season.

Would they be good enough? I have no idea, but as a club we have got to start giving younger players an opportunity, over signing ageing pro's, on big wages to please a manager. At some point this cycle has to end. We can't just keep repeating the same mistakes.

And I say that as someone who has defended Davies, defended Holgate, DCL (for years), Gordon, Brainthwaite etc. We are not in the mess we are in because of lads from the academy.

I'm willing to see both sides in Benitez, bit his handling of the Rondon situation has been an absolute disgrace, and after Chelsea he can't expect any fan support if he keeps repeating it.
 
I'm sorry mate, but this is insulting to people's intelligence.

Rondon has not "improved massively". He has scored 1 goal, from 4 inches in 12 games. He is nowhere near good enough. I'd go as far as to say, he's the worst player I've ever seen take to the pitch for us. At Brentford, he couldn't even be bothered to clap the fans.

Simms and Dobbin showed more in 1 game, than he has all season.

Would they be good enough? I have no idea, but as a club we have got to start giving younger players an opportunity, over signing ageing pro's, on big wages to please a manager. At some point this cycle has to end. We can't just keep repeating the same mistakes.

And I say that as someone who has defended Davies, defended Holgate, DCL (for years), Gordon, Brainthwaite etc. We are not in the mess we are in because of lads from the academy.

I'm willing to see both sides in Benitez, bit his handling of the Rondon situation has been an absolute disgrace, and after Chelsea he can't expect any fan support if he keeps repeating it.

You’re normally a very level-headed poster that I respect. Saying Rondon is the worst player to have ever taken the pitch for us is a bit drastic don’t you think? The match going fans clapped him off in the derby. Yeah he’s not been very good but he is a 4th choice striker that got thrown in during an injury crisis when he wasn’t fully fit. There’s worse footballers in this squad than him in terms of effort and desire let alone our entire history.

We have to give young players an opportunity? You’ve just listed all the players we’ve done exactly that with. We took a few seasons without much of a goal threat because we put all our eggs in Calvert Lewis’s basket. It’s paid off now but for a few seasons we suffered for not having a top striker up front. Benitez has continued to trust Gordon and Branthwaite by keeping them in the squad. He’s played Simms and Dobbin in their correct positions rather than just playing experiences midfielders out of position (which Ancelotti and Moyes used to do)

The Rondon situation is for me just a complete distraction that is being clung to by his detractors. As I’ve said loads of times when everyone is fit DCL Richarlison and Gray all start ahead of Rondon in the central striker role. This job to fix the problems at Everton is a multi year job. The success of the club in the forthcoming years will rely on those issues being fixed not whether or not a manager started Rondon over a few young players for a few games during an injury crisis.

The reaction to this by elements on here has been completely out of proportion. There’s some genuine criticism in my book, the continual selection of Keane and Coleman being a far greater crime, the delay in going to 433 in certain games, starting Gbamin when he obviously wasn’t ready. All of these for me are more questionable short term concerns than the fact he played Rondon over Simms or Dobbin a few times.
 
You’re normally a very level-headed poster that I respect. Saying Rondon is the worst player to have ever taken the pitch for us is a bit drastic don’t you think? The match going fans clapped him off in the derby. Yeah he’s not been very good but he is a 4th choice striker that got thrown in during an injury crisis when he wasn’t fully fit. There’s worse footballers in this squad than him in terms of effort and desire let alone our entire history.

We have to give young players an opportunity? You’ve just listed all the players we’ve done exactly that with. We took a few seasons without much of a goal threat because we put all our eggs in Calvert Lewis’s basket. It’s paid off now but for a few seasons we suffered for not having a top striker up front.

The Rondon situation is for me just a complete distraction that is being clung to by his detractors. As I’ve said loads of times when everyone is fit DCL Richarlison and Gray all start ahead of Rondon in the central striker role. This job to fix the problems at Everton is a multi year job. The success of the club in the forthcoming years will rely on those issues being fixed not whether or not a manager started Rondon over a few young players for a few games during an injury crisis.

The reaction to this by elements on here has been completely out of proportion. There’s some genuine criticism in my book, the continual selection of Keane and Coleman being a far greater crime, the delay in going to 433 in certain games, starting Gbamin when he obviously wasn’t ready. All of these for me are more questionable short term concerns than the fact he played Rondon over Simms or Dobbin a few times.

Yes you too, hence why I was very surprised by the comments around Rondon.

On him he is one of the worst yes. He strolls around the pitch and doesn't put a shift in. He had a bit of a go in the derby, in a match we lost 4-1 for the first time in 5 or 6 years. That's what we are clinging too with him. I appreciate he was only brought in for a free (though wages will be high) but where has that endeavour been for all the other games? I'm not one for hyperbole either, but honestly he's as bad as Brett Angel. Give me Niasse of Stracalursi (sp) for me over him, as at least they'd give you 100%. I can't have him at all.

If he played like he did in the derby every week, pretty awfully in honesty, but at least putting some effort in, I'd defend him. I'd probably get some stick, but I'd defend him and say he's not a slow, awful player but he's trying. I can't defend him not putting it in though. It probably sounds harsh, but at some point, there surely has to be an honest conversation about lads like him, and Cuco Martina etc who are just brought in on the basis of a manager knowing them?

As for the multi-year job, yes to a degree I agree, but last season we were in the top 4 until the back end of the season and got 59 points with an injury ravaged squad. We finished 10 points behind Liverpool. Would they accept the sort of performance we have shown, and some multi-year rebuild? I think the squad was ok, and needed a calmer head. However even if we accept the premise, what pray tell is the manager doing to rectify us in the long term? And where is the sense, if you take a long term view, of not playing younger players, over 32 year olds who are never going to be good enough?

Like to me the manager can't have both. He either plays the senior lads, and is judged on results now, or he takes a long term view and gives young players a chance and we view it as a process. If he goes for the latter route, I will give him time, but bluntly, if we keep going with your Rondon's and even your Townsends, we are not magically going to get better in 5 years. We will stagnate. All the other clubs in Europe who occupy our position don't do that. In terms of a big picture, they are very clear that young players have to be given exposure, some have to be sold on, to generate funds to re build. I could kind of justify sacrificing this for Ancelotti who got us 30 from 20 in his first season, and 59 in his 1st full season in terms of points. Can I justify this for Benitez getting under 50? Again, I'm not sure.

As for Gbamin and Coleman, I'd agree but would be a bit less critical. I thought Kenny did ok last game, and was better than Coleman who looks finished to me. So until a right back comes in, I hope Kenny keeps his spot. I suspect Coleman is a good trainer and sets standards on the training pitch. Gbamin should never have been put in, in a 2 man midfield. So that was odd. He should go out on loan, and failing that play some under 23's games. We have been unlucky with him.
 

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Late bid you say ?
 
Exactly.

People seem to think that Simms and Dobbin would have slotted in seamlessly and maybe bagged a few goals and played at a similar level to DCL or Richarlison.

I’ll forecast a far more likely scenario. Dobbin and Simms, both battling fitness issues, would have started games, they might have had a good half of football, maybe even a good game, maybe even two, and then their form would have dipped (as it does for nearly every young player). Even more likely is that being thrown into a team in an injury crisis playing poorly would result in them barely getting a sniff of the ball and having a horrendous start to their careers. No doubt the fans would then be saying ‘why did Benitez buy Rondon to not play him ffs, an experienced PL forward should be getting played rather than letting these kids take the blame for his failings’

Now consider that this fan base had issues with Lukaku Stones and Barkley, called DCL a championship chump for a few seasons, and is currently still moaning about Gordon despite him coming on leaps and bounds.

Now Dobbin and Simms are probably nowhere near the level of these players (or at least not yet) and yet people are claiming that throwing them in not fully fit into one of the most poisonous atmospheres at Everton in a long time is a good idea to start their senior careers? Imagine those lads going onto social media after those games.

Now balance all this against a seasoned old pro like Rondon who needs fitness and has enough experience to take the inevitable fan backlash that has come his way. He even managed to improve drastically during this period.

Fortunately Benitez seems to have a brain and experience that stops him from doing stupid stuff that the fan base would like him to.

Yeah not having that Rondon improved "drastically".

He's up there with the likes of Cuco Martina as one of the worst players I've ever seen play for Everton (I'm 43 and I've seen a whole lot of crap )
 
I listened to a Ukrainian football podcast on this fella last week and I have to say, it didn’t inspire me with a lot of confidence.

They seemed to be suggesting he has good qualities but they had reservations about his ability to settle in the PL which is always going to be the biggest part of the gamble when buying from abroad.

Based on that, I am concerned we are swapping Digne, a seasoned PL player with good stats behind him for an unproven player who those who have seen him most don’t seem particularly convinced he can excel in the PL. All of this and the fees quotes make it pretty much costing us what we get in for Digne with just the saving on wages as a plus

Agreed. I suspect (my guess only), Mykolenko was shortlisted for a long term replacement and to back up Lucas Digne first, as it was mentioned that Mykolenko was on our radar in the summer. Lucas Digne is 29 years and it's about time for us to find someone or else we'll be stuck with Coleman situation. But the fallout between Digne and Benitez hasten the decision to sign Mykolenko. To me, it's not an ideal situation as you said, we swapped a seasoned player for an unproven.
But I think anyone we signed to replace Digne, we will have the same concern.

I would only hope Mykolenko would settle well immediately. We could either end up with a bad player or end up with a gem. Lets hope he's a gem.
 

My point was that zat is saying he's been one of the top 3 u21 defenders in the world over the last 3 years.

zats comment about him being one of the best 3 u21 defenders in the world for the last 3 years.



So, ive NOT written:

"One of the best 3 u21 defenders in the world for the last 3 years"


Ive quite literally not said written that and your quotes dont show that at all.

Whose said he's one of the "best 3 under 21 defenders" as ive never thought, written or said that"


lol
 
I’m afraid we’ve not seen any evidence of that. If he was he would have more success here than he has.

I listened to a Ukrainian football podcast on this fella last week and I have to say, it didn’t inspire me with a lot of confidence.

They seemed to be suggesting he has good qualities but they had reservations about his ability to settle in the PL which is always going to be the biggest part of the gamble when buying from abroad.

Based on that, I am concerned we are swapping Digne, a seasoned PL player with good stats behind him for an unproven player who those who have seen him most don’t seem particularly convinced he can excel in the PL. All of this and the fees quotes make it pretty much costing us what we get in for Digne with just the saving on wages as a plus
Digne is on a downward spiral and has been for ages. Whoever replaces him he needs to go.
 
I listened to a Ukrainian football podcast on this fella last week and I have to say, it didn’t inspire me with a lot of confidence.

They seemed to be suggesting he has good qualities but they had reservations about his ability to settle in the PL which is always going to be the biggest part of the gamble when buying from abroad.

Based on that, I am concerned we are swapping Digne, a seasoned PL player with good stats behind him for an unproven player who those who have seen him most don’t seem particularly convinced he can excel in the PL. All of this and the fees quotes make it pretty much costing us what we get in for Digne with just the saving on wages as a plus

The Ukrainian chap on here also mentioned (correctly imo) that they find it hard to settle overseas.

He's highly rated and 6 years younger than Digne.

This "unproven" line being trotted out by a few posters doesnt make sense to me.

What does "unproven" actually mean?

Where should signings be "proven" ?

Yeah couple of his former coaches have said it’s too early for him as well. Weirdly both their interviews said he was good going forward but they had concerns about him defensively in the premier league. Bizarre, if true, considering that’s the emphasis Benitez puts on his fullbacks.

There’s not another top manager alive that would have come into this squad and decided the player he needed to force out was Digne. Benitez is an arrogant tool putting his ego ahead of the interests of the team.

It should never have been made public. Could have "rested" him on the bench.

Unfortunately to move forward we need to sell, obviously we’d all love to move on Holgate, Davies,
Iwobi and Gomes for 50mil and go from there. And I’m sure the club are trying to find buyers for them. And we may get lucky for one or two that I’ve mentioned.

But the players we can actually sell now for money, is Digne, Pickford, DCL and Richarlison. Digne will be worth noting in 2 seasons, so you’d rather keep him and Just go and get some frees and loans

Really need to sell deadwood.

Agreed. I suspect (my guess only), Mykolenko was shortlisted for a long term replacement and to back up Lucas Digne first, as it was mentioned that Mykolenko was on our radar in the summer. Lucas Digne is 29 years and it's about time for us to find someone or else we'll be stuck with Coleman situation. But the fallout between Digne and Benitez hasten the decision to sign Mykolenko. To me, it's not an ideal situation as you said, we swapped a seasoned player for an unproven.
But I think anyone we signed to replace Digne, we will have the same concern.

I would only hope Mykolenko would settle well immediately. We could either end up with a bad player or end up with a gem. Lets hope he's a gem.

He was linked twice in early and mid 2020.





I'd be interested to know who posters would sign instead that is:

In the u23 age bracket
Costs £20mil or less
 
Digne is on a downward spiral and has been for ages. Whoever replaces him he needs to go.
I still think Digne is a very good player.
But even if what you say was true the way it has come about remains an example of poor management.
Scrabbling round mid season to find both a buyer and a replacement is ,frankly, a ridiculous situation to be in .
Like I’ve said previously, I’d be very unimpressed if I was Moshiri.
 
I still think Digne is a very good player.
But even if what you say was true the way it has come about remains an example of poor management.
Scrabbling round mid season to find both a buyer and a replacement is ,frankly, a ridiculous situation to be in .
Like I’ve said previously, I’d be very unimpressed if I was Moshiri.
Well after 2 & a half months assessing the squad ( in his own words) said "I have a plan"
Very poor management imo.
 

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