Usmanov

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Like you, I have no insight into the inner workings of USM. Dont even know if it is a listed company, or a private one. Neither do I know if the M is Moshiri. Nor do I know if he is actually a part owner, and if he is, what % he owns. Ergo, what, if any, influence he has

What I do think though, that after all the twists and turns what with Red Holdings, Blue Holdings, selling shares in Arsenal, buying shares from Moshiri, Liverpool Waters, Liver Building, etc etc etc, any potential dangerous link will have been severed. Legally anyrate

There was a good piece in the Financial Times earlier this year setting out a lot of information on USM, which is a composite of Usmanov, Skoch, Moshiri. Usmanov controls it, but they are the three “main shareholders” - 48% Usmanov, 30% Skoch and 10% Moshiri (as of 2016 at least).

Skoch and Usmanov merged their companies - Moshiri is Chairman of the Board, but Usmanov is the decision maker and one who holds power. He dropped to less than 50% in 2014 after the Russians invaded Crimea - this just so happens to be the level at which sanctions from the US apply.

Usmanov is very close to some very powerful people - good relationship with Putin, and related by marriage and extremely close to the Uzbek dictator - Mirziyoyev.

Alexei Skoch, the S in USM is also something of a red flag. He lent Moshiri $14m in 1993 - an unfathomable amount in newly capitalist Russia at that time. Supposedly he turned this into $84m in a year and they went into business together. In 1999 Skoch went into the Russian parliament (the Duma), at which point he transferred his 30% to his father Vladimir. In 2014, the US placed Alexei under sanctions for long-standing ties to Russian organised crime.

The worry I have is whether or not UEFA consider USM a “related party”. Their definition of this is similar to, but less codified and more subjective than the rules of a developed stock exchange like the LSE. For examples related entities include where:
“One entity has significant influence over the other entity”
“One entity is an associate or joint venture of the other entity”
Now, by my reading of this, USM is probably not a related party, but I don’t know what the threshold is in terms of cross holdings that Moshiri has or the fact that he sits on their board. They must have discussed this with UEFA though, like they did with the stadium naming options.

I read that it does mean though that there’s no way Usmanov can own any part of EFC and still sponsor anything using USM.
 

The former mate. Wouldnt surprise me if they clamped down on it soon

Forgive me, buts its a bit of a jump from Canary Wharf being largely funded from laundered Brinks Mat gold, (allegedly etc), and the funding of EFC/Liverpool Waters et al with USM being involved in some way.
 
I read that it does mean though that there’s no way Usmanov can own any part of EFC and still sponsor anything using USM.

He can mate.

As far as UEFA are concerned, a club can receive up to 30% of their revenue from sponsorship from related parties and they're not really bothered. Above 30% and the sponsorship from related parties have to pass the fair value test.

The Premier League are stricter in that all related party sponsorship has to pass the fair value test.
 

He can mate.

As far as UEFA are concerned, a club can receive up to 30% of their revenue from sponsorship from related parties and they're not really bothered. Above 30% and the sponsorship from related parties have to pass the fair value test.

The Premier League are stricter in that all related party sponsorship has to pass the fair value test.

Thanks, didn’t know that 30% rule. That being said though, it would be much better for the situation to stay as it is. Usmanov and his company’s sponsorship is the key income stream so would be better for that income not to be limited to only 30%...
 
Thanks, didn’t know that 30% rule. That being said though, it would be much better for the situation to stay as it is. Usmanov and his company’s sponsorship is the key income stream so would be better for that income not to be limited to only 30%...

Its not limited to 30%, he could sponsor us 100% if he really wanted to, as long as the deals pass a fair value test.

Basically he cant sponsor our shirts for 300m a season, but he might JUST get away with matching Uniteds 64m a Season, if hes lucky.
 
1. Manchester United - £64 million (Chevrolet)
2. Manchester City - £45 million (Etihad)
3. Arsenal - £40 million (Fly Emirates)
4. Chelsea - £40 million (Yokohama)
5. Liverpool - £40 million (Standard Chartered)
6. Tottenham - £35 million (AIA)
7. West Ham - £10 million (Betway)
8. Everton - £9.6 million (SportPesa)
9. Wolves - £8 million (ManBetX)
10. Southampton - £7.5 million (LD Sports)
11. Burnley - £7.5 million (LoveBet)
12. Crystal Palace - £6.5 million (ManBetX)
13. Newcastle - £6.5 million (Fun88)
14. Watford - £6.5 million (Sportsbet.io)
15. Aston Villa - £6 million (W88)
16. Bournemouth - £5 million (M88)
17. Leicester - £4 million (King Power)
18. Sheffield United - £3.5 million (USG)
19. Norwich - £3 million (Dafabet)
20. Brighton - £1.5 million (American Express)


As you can see, we have plenty of wiggle room.

I still dont think it will be an Usmanov company, external money sources are cleaner and easier on his pocket.
 

1. Manchester United - £64 million (Chevrolet)
2. Manchester City - £45 million (Etihad)
3. Arsenal - £40 million (Fly Emirates)
4. Chelsea - £40 million (Yokohama)
5. Liverpool - £40 million (Standard Chartered)
6. Tottenham - £35 million (AIA)
7. West Ham - £10 million (Betway)
8. Everton - £9.6 million (SportPesa)
9. Wolves - £8 million (ManBetX)
10. Southampton - £7.5 million (LD Sports)
11. Burnley - £7.5 million (LoveBet)
12. Crystal Palace - £6.5 million (ManBetX)
13. Newcastle - £6.5 million (Fun88)
14. Watford - £6.5 million (Sportsbet.io)
15. Aston Villa - £6 million (W88)
16. Bournemouth - £5 million (M88)
17. Leicester - £4 million (King Power)
18. Sheffield United - £3.5 million (USG)
19. Norwich - £3 million (Dafabet)
20. Brighton - £1.5 million (American Express)


As you can see, we have plenty of wiggle room.

I still dont think it will be an Usmanov company, external money sources are cleaner and easier on his pocket.
Not sure an external company as you say would be putting the type of money in that we hope an Usmanov company can.
To be challenging the top in the sponsorship stakes it would need to be aka 40 mil pa.
Cant see us getting anywhere near that.
 
Thanks, didn’t know that 30% rule. That being said though, it would be much better for the situation to stay as it is. Usmanov and his company’s sponsorship is the key income stream so would be better for that income not to be limited to only 30%...

If you think about the City situation, it's not massively different to what we're in, in that ...

City is owned by Mansour, who's something like deputy PM of their government. Their government own Etihad Airways, so Etihad are a related party.

What follows is my take on the situation. City lied about the source of the funding of the sponsorship, not to get round UEFA rules ( I think they'd have dropped under 30% of overall revenue ), but to make it easier to get it past the Premier League who'd have taken a dim view of direct investment by Mansour.

City committed the cardinal sin of getting caught, because, ultimately, they weren't very bright.
 
Not sure an external company as you say would be putting the type of money in that we hope an Usmanov company can.
To be challenging the top in the sponsorship stakes it would need to be aka 40 mil pa.
Cant see us getting anywhere near that.

No it wont, but so far he has sponsored our training ground, part of the stadium, given us 30m to get in a line and pretty soon the bog roll in The Park End, so if we can get money from elsewhere, USM has shown they will give us any many little bumps as they can get away with.
 
If you think about the City situation, it's not massively different to what we're in, in that ...

City is owned by Mansour, who's something like deputy PM of their government. Their government own Etihad Airways, so Etihad are a related party.

What follows is my take on the situation. City lied about the source of the funding of the sponsorship, not to get round UEFA rules ( I think they'd have dropped under 30% of overall revenue ), but to make it easier to get it past the Premier League who'd have taken a dim view of direct investment by Mansour.

City committed the cardinal sin of getting caught, because, ultimately, they weren't very bright.

City’s problem is also that the related party rules I referred to explicitly mention governments and states investing. So they consider different government arms to be the same entity and very much related.

Whereas our situation would be different as it is a private company. In an ideal world, Moshiri would reduce his USM holdings to say 9% and step off their board, leaving Usmanov a free run to invest at silly, ahem I mean market, rates and there’s no sniff of related party issues.
 
1. Manchester United - £64 million (Chevrolet)
2. Manchester City - £45 million (Etihad)
3. Arsenal - £40 million (Fly Emirates)
4. Chelsea - £40 million (Yokohama)
5. Liverpool - £40 million (Standard Chartered)
6. Tottenham - £35 million (AIA)
7. West Ham - £10 million (Betway)
8. Everton - £9.6 million (SportPesa)
9. Wolves - £8 million (ManBetX)
10. Southampton - £7.5 million (LD Sports)
11. Burnley - £7.5 million (LoveBet)
12. Crystal Palace - £6.5 million (ManBetX)
13. Newcastle - £6.5 million (Fun88)
14. Watford - £6.5 million (Sportsbet.io)
15. Aston Villa - £6 million (W88)
16. Bournemouth - £5 million (M88)
17. Leicester - £4 million (King Power)
18. Sheffield United - £3.5 million (USG)
19. Norwich - £3 million (Dafabet)
20. Brighton - £1.5 million (American Express)


As you can see, we have plenty of wiggle room.

I still dont think it will be an Usmanov company, external money sources are cleaner and easier on his pocket.
would imagine we should be looking to close the gap on tottenham so i reckon about 25-30 mil for next sponsor.
 

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