2018/19 Tom Davies

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Barnfred 55 said:
This is the post I was responding to.

WTF do you expect from somebody who's just turned 20 FFS. Of course the age issue is relevant when you're dealing with posts like this. I sometimes think people expect all players to be as good as Richarlison and Neves are 21, but they aren't.

The fact that some players that age get thrown in the deep end is usually down to bad managers or bad recruitment/injuries. It's not the players fault. It's not as if they can turn round to the manager and say, sorry boss I'm not ready yet.
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The age issue isn’t irrelevant because you would expect him to grow and improve as a player as he gets older like anybody else, and I appreciate that players mature at different rates, however, my point is not his ability for his age. I’m all for giving young players time and experience to hone their talents; I can see it with the likes of Kenny, Lookman, Holgate and Calvert-Lewin, but none of those are anywhere near the final product or good enough (perhaps apart from Holgate) to hold down a regular spot in the first team just yet. My criticism with Davies is different, though. He comes across to me like he’s alright at quite a few things but doesn’t shine in anything particular. I can’t see what his strength is, or what he will be useful for in the future. This isn’t an age thing. Again, I hope he proves me wrong, but I suspect he will reach the level of a semi decent premier league all rounder at say the level of somewhere like Bournemouth, which don’t get me wrong is a very high level, but we need better.
 
Played very well yesterday and we needed him to as we couldn't afford for him to play like last season where he constantly gave the ball away. Hope he pushes on this season as he has the talent to be a good player for us in that kind of role.
 
We had a lot less control of the match when he came on as he doesn't really impact the game enough.

Still not seeing at all what he really offers but he wasn't as poor as last season, so that is an improvement of sorts.
 
Seanjd said:
The age issue isn’t irrelevant because you would expect him to grow and improve as a player as he gets older like anybody else, and I appreciate that players mature at different rates, however, my point is not his ability for his age. I’m all for giving young players time and experience to hone their talents; I can see it with the likes of Kenny, Lookman, Holgate and Calvert-Lewin, but none of those are anywhere near the final product or good enough (perhaps apart from Holgate) to hold down a regular spot in the first team just yet. My criticism with Davies is different, though. He comes across to me like he’s alright at quite a few things but doesn’t shine in anything particular. I can’t see what his strength is, or what he will be useful for in the future. This isn’t an age thing. Again, I hope he proves me wrong, but I suspect he will reach the level of a semi decent premier league all rounder at say the level of somewhere like Bournemouth, which don’t get me wrong is a very high level, but we need better.
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I agree 100%. If your original pist said this I would have given it a like nit a sarkey comment.
 
orly said:
We had a lot less control of the match when he came on as he doesn't really impact the game enough.

Still not seeing at all what he really offers but he wasn't as poor as last season, so that is an improvement of sorts.
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He runs around loads and makes the odd tackle which leads people to think he offered more than he did.

What he didn't do was pay a blind bit of attention to his role as a midfielder from a "defensive shape" point of view, which meant Southampton found it a lot easier to attack us than they should have. He doesn't seem to really understand that side of the game, nor his own weaknesses, very well.

I hope Gomes is good/stays fit so we can loan Davies out in January to someone who can afford to let him learn on the job.
 
Seanjd said:
The age issue isn’t irrelevant because you would expect him to grow and improve as a player as he gets older like anybody else, and I appreciate that players mature at different rates, however, my point is not his ability for his age. I’m all for giving young players time and experience to hone their talents; I can see it with the likes of Kenny, Lookman, Holgate and Calvert-Lewin, but none of those are anywhere near the final product or good enough (perhaps apart from Holgate) to hold down a regular spot in the first team just yet. My criticism with Davies is different, though. He comes across to me like he’s alright at quite a few things but doesn’t shine in anything particular. I can’t see what his strength is, or what he will be useful for in the future. This isn’t an age thing. Again, I hope he proves me wrong, but I suspect he will reach the level of a semi decent premier league all rounder at say the level of somewhere like Bournemouth, which don’t get me wrong is a very high level, but we need better.
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I'd say his one-touch passing, confidence and ability to play offensive passes are very decent and actually quite unusual for a young English player.

If he accepts that this is what he's good at and that running on the ball, beating men, shooting from range, goalscoring etc are not things he should be trying to do regularly, he could carve out a decent PL career.

Essentially, he's not built to do the things players like e.g. Ross Barkley can do and in my opinion gets caught out trying to do these kinds of things too often. He could be a very useful midfielder with a bit of defensive discipline and simplification/understanding of his role in the position.
 
paulbefc said:
He runs around loads and makes the odd tackle which leads people to think he offered more than he did.

What he didn't do was pay a blind bit of attention to his role as a midfielder from a "defensive shape" point of view, which meant Southampton found it a lot easier to attack us than they should have. He doesn't seem to really understand that side of the game, nor his own weaknesses, very well.

I hope Gomes is good/stays fit so we can loan Davies out in January to someone who can afford to let him learn on the job.
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When their rb had a go and Pickford made that mistake. Before that happened, the CM area went missing with the space left to Soton. Plus he did not have a clue when defending set pieces. Soton went to threaten us once our defensive shape was gone when Schneiderlin went off.

He better suit when playing higher up the pitch. He can pass the ball forward.
 
I'm surprised with the criticism he is getting. Yes some control was lost (in the 2nd half more than the first) but I think thats as much down to the structure and how well Schneiderlin played than on Tom.

I thought he was very good yesterday. In the first half he did what he lacked last season, which was have a proper look at the game and almost "play himself in". He made some simple passes, got on the ball, focus on doing the simple things. That then allowed him to carry the ball well, beat players, pick out some more difficult passes and win some important free kicks. If he focusses on the simple things, his natural ability will shine through as he has good vision and can beat a player.

He was poor after half time, but so was the rest of the team. Thats not to say he it's an excuse but I wouldn't single him out for that.

He finished the game more positively and was involved in some good attacking moves.

What was clear to me though, if for a lad to play with the maturity, confidence and composure he has, in the hardest position on the pitch having just turned 20 is very good. It's remarkable clearly and there is not really any players in the league that can be compared to him. I know the lad at Arsenal had some good moments, but he also got badly exposed at other times (more than Tom).

He has come on a lot in the close season. That can and should continue and is all you can ask. He still has a long way to go, but for me he is going the right way.
 
hktoffee said:
When their rb had a go and Pickford made that mistake. Before that happened, the CM area went missing with the space left to Soton. Plus he did not have a clue when defending set pieces. Soton went to threaten us once our defensive shape was gone when Schneiderlin went off.

He better suit when playing higher up the pitch. He can pass the ball forward.
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When Schneiderlin plays well he is underated. Thats what I draw from this, not that Tom didn't play well.
 
hktoffee said:
He’s 20 and will learn. I am not trying to get picky on him. Just need our players to cut out these defensive errors. Really need to do a proper job when defending setpieces.
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I agree. I didn't notice that from him, but as a team we need to be better organised. We have quite a big team now and even lads who are a bit smaller are decent in the air (Coleman) so we need to do better and so does he. That is more easily learnt though, than stopping playing like a headless chicken like he was last season.
 
paulbefc said:
He runs around loads and makes the odd tackle which leads people to think he offered more than he did.

What he didn't do was pay a blind bit of attention to his role as a midfielder from a "defensive shape" point of view, which meant Southampton found it a lot easier to attack us than they should have. He doesn't seem to really understand that side of the game, nor his own weaknesses, very well.

I hope Gomes is good/stays fit so we can loan Davies out in January to someone who can afford to let him learn on the job.
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I think that Davies can learn a lot from 1 year with Gomes, Gana in a good, well balanced team, then go on loan next year to a continental team, and come back in 2020/21 as a much changed player. What do you think of that idea?
 
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