Today's Football 2018-19 Season

[marsh]

Rapid

Wow its like its on fast forward haha

 

[Harryflashman]

The use of agents, and unfortunately pretty disreputable ones too, is integral and established practice in so many transfers, something which some have tried to take steps to avoid, but remains something some clubs have little option over using. Deals are very rarely as straight forward and uncomplicated as the press can sometimes make them seem, there are usually third parties involved in every aspect with one or both clubs involved.

In such a tragedy as this with investigations and now lawyers likely to become even further involved, a lot of the shady dealings will come to the surface. To apportion blame for non payment is senseless at this stage, and making payments without clarification on so many contractual points, makes even less sense.

Lawyers have got involved even before the funeral, as early as last week, as instructed by the selling club Nantes, Cardiff have every right to wait and see if and what is due.

It’s clear we disagree on this mate . I’ve no issue with Cardiff investigating the transfer and if they discover the agent or anyone at their club has acted illegally or in a discreditable manner they should deal with that . However Cardiff signed off on the transfer , if you’re saying there is something iffy about it and I think their may be then they should have done their due diligence before completing the deal . If sala has flown commercially then they would apparently have no issue with this transfer , the players tragic death has created this situation apparently.

It’s a huge amount of money and I suspect the insurance won’t make things easy but this behaviour of arguing about the fee post transfer whilst sending staff to the funeral and waxing about the great loss leaves me with a bitter taste in my mouth . I’m not saying I can’t understand it , I can to a degree but I certainly don’t feel comfortable about it .

 

[Chris O'Connor]

It’s clear we disagree on this mate . I’ve no issue with Cardiff investigating the transfer and if they discover the agent or anyone at their club has acted illegally or in a discreditable manner they should deal with that . However Cardiff signed off on the transfer , if you’re saying there is something iffy about it and I think their may be then they should have done their due diligence before completing the deal . If sala has flown commercially then they would apparently have no issue with this transfer , the players tragic death has created this situation apparently.

It’s a huge amount of money and I suspect the insurance won’t make things easy but this behaviour of arguing about the fee post transfer whilst sending staff to the funeral and waxing about the great loss leaves me with a bitter taste in my mouth . I’m not saying I can’t understand it , I can to a degree but I certainly don’t feel comfortable about it .

Yes of course its not pleasant but inevitable that this is the course that would have to be followed. Cardiff are far from a rich club and have to be extremely careful on any expenditure, this was a massive amount of money to spend for them, their record transfer.

The football agent who operates in France a great deal Mark McKay, son of the notorious Willie McKay, had been busily trying to find a buyer for the striker after being granted a mandate to do so by Nantes in exchange for a potentially lucrative payday.

I was trying not to take sides, but due diligence is so much more easily done when there is time, no relegation fight, no desperate need and many alternative choices, Cardiff aren't a magnet for quality players and must shop in a far more uncertain market.

They may well have done what checks were possible, transfer windows can often make such players only available to clubs such as Cardiff very late on when perhaps more lucrative offers or better clubs have not come forward. Indeed fake stories of interest from West Ham and ourselves had been planted by the agent to create an interest around the player.

Cardiff in their situation do have every right to delay on payment if it isn't justified, it's not a case of reneging on payment but of sensible financial management and not paying out before it is established they need to.

 

[Harryflashman]

Yes of course its not pleasant but inevitable that this is the course that would have to be followed. Cardiff are far from a rich club and have to be extremely careful on any expenditure, this was a massive amount of money to spend for them, their record transfer.

The football agent who operates in France a great deal Mark McKay, son of the notorious Willie McKay, had been busily trying to find a buyer for the striker after being granted a mandate to do so by Nantes in exchange for a potentially lucrative payday.

I was trying not to take sides, but due diligence is so much more easily done when there is time, no relegation fight, no desperate need and many alternative choices, Cardiff aren't a magnet for quality players and must shop in a far more uncertain market.

They may well have done what checks were possible, transfer windows can often make such players only available to clubs such as Cardiff very late on when perhaps more lucrative offers or better clubs have not come forward. Indeed fake stories of interest from West Ham and ourselves had been planted by the agent to create an interest around the player.

Cardiff in their situation do have every right to delay on payment if it isn't justified, its not a case of reneging on payment but of sensible financial management and not paying out before it is established they need to.

So they rushed a transfer and failed to do due dilligence in a bid to get it over the line but now having suffered a tragedy are seeking to retroactively do the checks they perhaps should have done before agreeing to buy the player . I’m sorry that seems ridiculous, the deal may well be dodgy given the agents hostory I wouldn’t be surprised so don’t sign it off . Comparisons can be crass but It’s like a poster said earlier it’s like have bought an expensive vase but dropped and have now cancelled payment , to extrapolate that they’re now saying it had a crack in it as well that they didn’t see . I suspect there may be fall out for the agent but I fail to see how Nantes are liable for Cardiff apparently rushing a transfer and handling its badly . Like many of us have said the behaviour contrasts dramatically with the loss Cardiff have spoken about , if they’re saying he’s not a Cardiff player how do those two sit together

 

[Chris O'Connor]

So they rushed a transfer and failed to do due dilligence in a bid to get it over the line but now having suffered a tragedy are seeking to retroactively do the checks they perhaps should have done before agreeing to buy the player . I’m sorry that seems ridiculous, the deal may well be dodgy given the agents hostory I wouldn’t be surprised so don’t sign it off .

Assumptions and facts can easily be confused and perhaps become one and the same in some cases. What checks were and weren't possible is conjecture at this point although transfers windows can by their very nature force rushed deals.

It can't though be concluded, amidst such uncertainty, that the buying club is at fault of non payment and liable, if an agent that has been mandated by the selling club to tout for buyers, is found to have been a major contributory factor in the tragedy.


A bit more background if you're interested :-

The agent's now notorious father has a stranglehold on many deals involving French clubs and later emailed Sala how his son’s agency “leaked in the media that other clubs like West Ham and Everton want you. Just to stimulate the interest in you”. This had naturally unsettled the striker as better clubs could be in.

Negotiations over the Sala deal had proved torturous. Cardiff saw bids rejected at least twice over several weeks of talks before Nantes finally settled on £15 million, plus £2.6 million in potential add-ons. Vincent Tan, the Malaysian billionaire who bankrolls the Welsh club, did not stand in the way of the record bid. Cardiff were not the only ones who needed convincing about the Sala deal. The player and his agent, Meissa N’Diaye, had to be wooed.

McKay claimed he had made 600 deals happen and suggested he could eventually get Sala a move to “Manchester, Liverpool and Chelsea”, should he sign for Cardiff.

 

[Harryflashman]

Assumptions and facts can easily be confused and perhaps become one and the same in some cases. What checks were and weren't possible is conjecture at this point although transfers windows can by their very nature force rushed deals.

It can't though be concluded, amidst such uncertainty, that the buying club is at fault of non payment and liable, if an agent that has been mandated by the selling club to tout for buyers, is found to have been a major contributory factor in the tragedy.


A bit more background if you're interested :-

The agent's now notorious father has a stranglehold on many deals involving French clubs and later emailed Sala how his son’s agency “leaked in the media that other clubs like West Ham and Everton want you. Just to stimulate the interest in you”. This had naturally unsettled the striker as better clubs could be in.

Negotiations over the Sala deal had proved torturous. Cardiff saw bids rejected at least twice over several weeks of talks before Nantes finally settled on £15 million, plus £2.6 million in potential add-ons. Vincent Tan, the Malaysian billionaire who bankrolls the Welsh club, did not stand in the way of the record bid. Cardiff were not the only ones who needed convincing about the Sala deal. The player and his agent, Meissa N’Diaye, had to be wooed.

McKay claimed he had made 600 deals happen and suggested he could eventually get Sala a move to “Manchester, Liverpool and Chelsea”, should he sign for Cardiff.

Yeah mate McKay is dodgy I get that , did Cardiff not know he was involved , Was it a horrendous shock that he was once the crash occurred ? My guess is they knew full well so his character is irrelevant, if you lay down with dogs you get fleas. if they didn’t like dealing with McKay the. Signing his sons was probably a bit of a strange deal .

 

[Chris O'Connor]

Yeah mate McKay is dodgy I get that , did Cardiff not know he was involved , Was it a horrendous shock that he was once the crash occurred ? My guess is they knew full well so his character is irrelevant, if you lay down with dogs you get fleas. if they didn’t like dealing with McKay the. Signing his sons was probably a bit of a strange deal .

Its culpability and liability that's under dispute and it's primarily that that the legal proceedings will be about, not whether or not they knew Nantes had mandated a particular agent or not, that's not under dispute at all as it was always likely to be the case.

Dealing with disreputable agents and characters are unfortunately very much a feature of a high percentage of deals done nowadays, but can be unavoidable if an agent has a predominant interest in the particular league you're recruiting from.

This was a protracted deal, and therefore possibly unlikely to have just been rushed through, initial checks followed by wider diligence would very likely have been a matter of course for such a record expenditure.

Some of that is admittedly assumption and not fact but then waiting for the facts to emerge before being judged on assumptions seems only fair.

 

[Harryflashman]

Its culpability and liability that's under dispute and it's primarily that that the legal proceedings will be about, not whether or not they knew Nantes had mandated a particular agent or not, that's not under dispute at all as it was always likely to be the case.

Dealing with disreputable agents and characters are unfortunately very much a feature of a high percentage of deals done nowadays, but can be unavoidable if an agent has a predominant interest in the particular league you're recruiting from.

This was a protracted deal, and therefore possibly unlikely to have just been rushed through, initial checks followed by wider diligence would very likely have been a matter of course for such a record expenditure.

Some of that is admittedly assumption and not fact but then waiting for the facts to emerge before being judged on assumptions seems only fair.

If it wasn’t rushed then what’s their problem ? Let’s say the deal is terrible and has a host of issues within it , then that shouldn’t have signed it . If the crash hadn’t happened then he’d be in the squad so they’re now unhappy with the deal because the player died . I wouldn’t not be remotely surprised if there are issues within mckays involvement but they had absolutely no problem with that when they signed the deal the issues have apparently arisen now an asset is not available to them . That looks to me , admittedly from the outside, like they’re hiding behind his death or using it to escape from their liabilities and I think that’s at best unpleasant and distasteful and possibly something worse .

 

[Chris O'Connor]

If it wasn’t rushed then what’s their problem ? Let’s say the deal is terrible and has a host of issues within it , then that shouldn’t have signed it . If the crash hadn’t happened then he’d be in the squad so they’re now unhappy with the deal because the player died . I wouldn’t not be remotely surprised if there are issues within mckays involvement but they had absolutely no problem with that when they signed the deal the issues have apparently arisen now an asset is not available to them .

Their issue is if there is such liability, and if so, how much is owed and when. Ideally everyone would act with good faith and ethically but transfers are not so black and white but murky and cloudy. It's not a clear cut business and with such sums involved, absolutely enormous to a club like Cardiff, they aren't in a position to just write it off and not act within their rights if there are serious doubts as to culpability and it's extent.

Since the tragedy, investigations by several reputable newspapers on both sides of the channel have uncovered details which do genuinely ask pertinent questions as to who is liable by law and these are now very likely to be examined in the courts

 

[Harryflashman]

Their issue is if there is such liability, and if so, how much is owed and when. Ideally everyone would act with good faith and ethically but transfers are not so black and white but murky and cloudy. It's not a clear cut business and with such sums involved, absolutely enormous to a club like Cardiff, they aren't in a position to just write it off and not act within their rights if there are serious doubts as to culpability and it's extent.

Since the tragedy, investigations by several reputable newspapers on both sides of the channel have uncovered details which do genuinely ask pertinent questions as to who is liable by law and these are now very likely to be examined in the courts

Im delighted about the investigative work and I think this story and the initial tragedy could have a massive fallout for a lot of people in football , i think there is an awful lot to come and I think it could end up being huge with ripples across the game . That doesn’t change my opinion that I find some of Cardiff’s behaviour distasteful and I think they’re hiding behind the death when their issues are with a deal they happily signed up to . I also think this investigation, if it leads where I think it might , could well have an impact on employees of their club .

 

[Big Fat Sam]

As they did with van Dijk for the RS previous game (who played the full 90), Sky Sports today saying Firmino is a MASSIVE DOUBT OMG for tomorrow's game. Obviously he'll make a miraculous recovery to play and score, like.

 

[Ring master]

lol He Thought he got away with a 2nd yellow been cancelled to have the ref call him back and give him a straight red

Legia defender William Remy had picked up a yellow card for a foul in the 67th minute, but it was a second challenge that really caught the referee's attention. The official showed him a second yellow and gave him his marching orders.
However, the referee then consulted VAR about the decision. On closer inspection, it appeared as if Remy had stamped on his opponent when the ball was near by.
The official then calls Remy back from the changing room and signals that the yellow card has been rescinded. Great news for Remy as he starts to run back onto the pitch.
It was worse though. He only gets a few steps on before a red in produced and he's sent back down the tunnel. The right decision, but a remarkable bizarre few minutes of football!

 

[YoboCopter]

Predictions tonite lads?

 

[carlos21]

Predictions tonite lads?

It will be hard game mate.

 

[Ring master]

If its a chelsea win,we have no game for another 3 weeks after the toon game