Time to Protest.......???????

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ive heard figures of 200 m to buy the club.
the debt is 40m
15 million to invest in the squad (its a good squad )

staggered restruction of goodison park ? i dunno ... 50m ?

305 million and you will have a lovely club with a decent fanbase , income , stadium and squad.
 

ive heard figures of 200 m to buy the club.
the debt is 40m
15 million to invest in the squad (its a good squad )
staggered restruction of goodison park ? i dunno ... 50m ?
305 million and you will have a lovely club with a decent fanbase , income , stadium and squad.

It's a good squad sure but still needs a lot of improvements to get to CL level. As I said before, I don't see why anyone buys the club (unless some lifelong fan suddenly shows up with a billion) unless they are going to do what it takes to get into the CL. We've finished 5th and 6th (and 4th) for a number of years and it seems to results in ZERO profit. So logically why would anyone buy Everton (aside from a fan) just to maintain that level and make no money?

So then the question is, does your 50m of rennovations to Goodison supply us with the increase in matchday revenue to fund a CL squad (60-100m in wages)? Does 15m in the squad get us a CL striker (no). What about LM? Think 15m on squad is very, very low. Bily and Heitinga were about 15m and while I still think Bily will come good and we might profit from Heitinga it shows how even buys which I wouldn't classify as bad (since I have faith in Bily and we'll hopefully profit on the other it's not like they are complete busts where we have to sell for 1m) still don't get us to the next level.

I think if you honestly look at the numbers logically it becomes pretty clear why certain teams struggle to find buyers.
 
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It's a good squad sure but still needs a lot of improvements to get to CL level. As I said before, I don't see why anyone buys the club (unless some lifelong fan suddenly shows up with a billion) unless they are going to do what it takes to get into the CL. We've finished 5th and 6th (and 4th) for a number of years and it seems to results in ZERO profit. So logically why would anyone buy Everton (aside from a fan) just to maintain that level and make no money?

So then the question is, does your 50m of rennovations to Goodison supply us with the increase in matchday revenue to fund a CL squad (60-100m in wages)? Does 15m in the squad get us a CL striker (no). What about LM? Think 15m on squad is very, very low. Bily and Heitinga were about 15m and while I still think Bily will come good and we might profit from Heitinga it shows how even buys which I wouldn't classify as bad (since I have faith in Bily and we'll hopefully profit on the other it's not like they are complete busts where we have to sell for 1m) still don't get us to the next level.

I think if you honestly look at the numbers logically it becomes pretty clear why certain teams struggle to find buyers.

1)if the stadium is redeveloped the club will make money
2) our wages are around 60%+ of our turnover (50m+) , improved stadium = improved turnover = improved wage budget
3) we have already invested a lot in the squad , 15 million more added to the squad in 1 year is ok (granted , this would have to be put in every year until the stadium is finished ,3-4 years , before the clubs more self sufficient (ie it can get by on its own profit rather than getting loans)
 
1)if the stadium is redeveloped the club will make money
2) our wages are around 60%+ of our turnover (50m+) , improved stadium = improved turnover = improved wage budget
3) we have already invested a lot in the squad , 15 million more added to the squad in 1 year is ok (granted , this would have to be put in every year until the stadium is finished ,3-4 years , before the clubs more self sufficient (ie it can get by on its own profit rather than getting loans)

Sorry but sounds extraordinarily optimistic to me mate. We basically make no money right now so your 50m in renovations are theoretically creating enough added revenue to support the increased wages (at least +25m a year) and player purchases (not to mention cover increased expenses).

KEIOC had this to say about the impact of a 50k seater stadium with extra boxes (far more than I'd imagine a 50m reno would provide): [[ Keith Wyness originally said that David Moyes will receive an additional £10million per season for transfer funds, however he changed his stance when he realised he was wrong. He next stated that Everton will increase revenue by £10million per season. This simply isn’t true either. To put this into perspective, even increasing stadium revenue by 25% (or £5m per year) would involve selling an additional 30 boxes at £50,000 per season (there are only plans to build 38 at Kirkby and where is the demand?) and an additional 7000 tickets per game at £25 each. If only 15 extra boxes were sold then crowds would have to increase by 8500 per game.]]

I think at the very most liberal estimate a 50m reno project would add about 5-10 mil. extra revenue per year. Worth doing? Sure. Going to make a significant impact on our ability to compete for a CL spot? Absolutely not. Don't forget 5 million isn't one 5 million pound player. It's one 2 million pound player and his wages for 3-4 years.

I still stand by my original statement: nobody is going to bother buying Everton football club unless they are willing to spend around 800m because to spend less than that is just going to result in (at best) more 5th and 6th place finishes and breaking even on the books (if they're lucky) and why would anyone (aside from a fan) bother buying the team to have us do the basically the same on the pitch and make no money?

Would we be better off if we found someone to spend an extra 5-10 million on the club per year than our current board? Of course. I just don't know why, putting myself in the shoes of this potential buyer, anyone would bother if 5-10 mil per year was the extent of their budget. The chances of making any money are slim to none and the chance of realistically competing with ManU et al. is the same. That's not even taking into account the lost interest from the 200m they spent to buy the club (taking it out of the banks and investments to buy the team essentially costs them an extra, let's say, 10-20m per year in lost interest and investment income); plus the potential loss on the initial investment if the club tanks and is worth less if/when that person wants to sell (if they can even find a buyer).

It simply doesn't make sense for someone to buy the club unless they're going to seriously invest. Finding someone to spend 800m on a football club they may never have heard of isn't easy -- I know it's not what people want to hear but I think bringing a little realism into the discussion is required.
 
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ive been trying to figure out how much has actually been 'invested' under bill.

1999
wage 61 %
turnover - 25.6m
net assetts 18.5 million
debt 16 million

2009
wage 62 %
turnover 79.7m
net assets- 57m
debt 37.9 million


so ....
debt increase of 21.9 m
assett increase of 38.5 million
a difference of 16.6m

does that mean theres been 1.66m 'extra investment' in our squad every year on average ?
which id say is pretty low considering our turnover has more than doubled in that time.
 
Back to the theme of the thread. If we had backed DK, the Board may have sold out (as it was alleged by many anyway), we would have had a new stadium, and new investment instead of continuing to tread on water.

The link between no DK and our gradual visible decline with our board either unable or unwilling to gain investment is so loud, it makes Andy Gray sound like a whisper.

Just a thought like. Even though, I don't think we should revisit DK.
 

Back to the theme of the thread. If we had backed DK, the Board may have sold out (as it was alleged by many anyway), we would have had a new stadium, and new investment instead of continuing to tread on water.

The link between no DK and our gradual visible decline with our board either unable or unwilling to gain investment is so loud, it makes Andy Gray sound like a whisper.

Just a thought like. Even though, I don't think we should revisit DK.

Excellent post!
 
Sorry but sounds extraordinarily optimistic to me mate. We basically make no money right now so your 50m in renovations are theoretically creating enough added revenue to support the increased wages (at least +25m a year) and player purchases (not to mention cover increased expenses).

KEIOC had this to say about the impact of a 50k seater stadium with extra boxes (far more than I'd imagine a 50m reno would provide): [[ Keith Wyness originally said that David Moyes will receive an additional £10million per season for transfer funds, however he changed his stance when he realised he was wrong. He next stated that Everton will increase revenue by £10million per season. This simply isn’t true either. To put this into perspective, even increasing stadium revenue by 25% (or £5m per year) would involve selling an additional 30 boxes at £50,000 per season (there are only plans to build 38 at Kirkby and where is the demand?) and an additional 7000 tickets per game at £25 each. If only 15 extra boxes were sold then crowds would have to increase by 8500 per game.]]

I think at the very most liberal estimate a 50m reno project would add about 5-10 mil. extra revenue per year. Worth doing? Sure. Going to make a significant impact on our ability to compete for a CL spot? Absolutely not. Don't forget 5 million isn't one 5 million pound player. It's one 2 million pound player and his wages for 3-4 years.

I still stand by my original statement: nobody is going to bother buying Everton football club unless they are willing to spend around 800m because to spend less than that is just going to result in (at best) more 5th and 6th place finishes and breaking even on the books (if they're lucky) and why would anyone (aside from a fan) bother buying the team to have us do the basically the same on the pitch and make no money?

Would we be better off if we found someone to spend an extra 5-10 million on the club per year than our current board? Of course. I just don't know why, putting myself in the shoes of this potential buyer, anyone would bother if 5-10 mil per year was the extent of their budget. The chances of making any money are slim to none and the chance of realistically competing with ManU et al. is the same. That's not even taking into account the lost interest from the 200m they spent to buy the club (taking it out of the banks and investments to buy the team essentially costs them an extra, let's say, 10-20m per year in lost interest and investment income); plus the potential loss on the initial investment if the club tanks and is worth less if/when that person wants to sell (if they can even find a buyer).

It simply doesn't make sense for someone to buy the club unless they're going to seriously invest. Finding someone to spend 800m on a football club they may never have heard of isn't easy -- I know it's not what people want to hear but I think bringing a little realism into the discussion is required.

Outstanding work.

By the way everyone should notice the difference between a post like this, which includes very specific figures and rock solid logic, and one word posts like "KENWRONG" or some such.
 
Sorry but sounds extraordinarily optimistic to me mate. We basically make no money right now so your 50m in renovations are theoretically creating enough added revenue to support the increased wages (at least +25m a year) and player purchases (not to mention cover increased expenses).

KEIOC had this to say about the impact of a 50k seater stadium with extra boxes (far more than I'd imagine a 50m reno would provide): [[ Keith Wyness originally said that David Moyes will receive an additional £10million per season for transfer funds, however he changed his stance when he realised he was wrong. He next stated that Everton will increase revenue by £10million per season. This simply isn’t true either. To put this into perspective, even increasing stadium revenue by 25% (or £5m per year) would involve selling an additional 30 boxes at £50,000 per season (there are only plans to build 38 at Kirkby and where is the demand?) and an additional 7000 tickets per game at £25 each. If only 15 extra boxes were sold then crowds would have to increase by 8500 per game.]]

I think at the very most liberal estimate a 50m reno project would add about 5-10 mil. extra revenue per year. Worth doing? Sure. Going to make a significant impact on our ability to compete for a CL spot? Absolutely not. Don't forget 5 million isn't one 5 million pound player. It's one 2 million pound player and his wages for 3-4 years.

I still stand by my original statement: nobody is going to bother buying Everton football club unless they are willing to spend around 800m because to spend less than that is just going to result in (at best) more 5th and 6th place finishes and breaking even on the books (if they're lucky) and why would anyone (aside from a fan) bother buying the team to have us do the basically the same on the pitch and make no money?

Would we be better off if we found someone to spend an extra 5-10 million on the club per year than our current board? Of course. I just don't know why, putting myself in the shoes of this potential buyer, anyone would bother if 5-10 mil per year was the extent of their budget. The chances of making any money are slim to none and the chance of realistically competing with ManU et al. is the same. That's not even taking into account the lost interest from the 200m they spent to buy the club (taking it out of the banks and investments to buy the team essentially costs them an extra, let's say, 10-20m per year in lost interest and investment income); plus the potential loss on the initial investment if the club tanks and is worth less if/when that person wants to sell (if they can even find a buyer).



It simply doesn't make sense for someone to buy the club unless they're going to seriously invest. Finding someone to spend 800m on a football club they may never have heard of isn't easy -- I know it's not what people want to hear but I think bringing a little realism into the discussion is required.

Not huge figures there but thats where it can become a whole new ball game even before taking the other points of the circa 800m required to make it a real goer- that lost potential interest????- an 'investors' gonna want that lost interest back each year for sure- where is the spare 20m on Everton's balance sheet if the current debt is not also repaid?- this just amplifies your point beyond doubt and highlights further we do really need to find a fool & his money because even a leveraged buyout isn't going to work with the current books we put out, as no scope I can see for a buyer/investor to be reimbursed their 'lost funds & as such a giant leap of faith for someone to come in and cover the debts aswell as the purchase price, given at least at the start they getting nowt in return and/or losing money.

20% raw chance each year of making the CL places- clearly much less when you factor in refeering decision, quality and superiority of other teams squads & a dose of bad luck. Get down the casino instead and put it all on black I'd say to any potential investor in Everton. Truth is we need someone to take a chance on us, despite all the quantifiable figures scowling at us far worse than any DM stare could. BK is like a rabbit in the headlights . It would be far kinder just to run him over right now- but the debts may just pass down to Jenny then-and we're no closer to resolving our future.
 
I know this may sound funny since I've just outlined a whole long diatribe about why there may not be any buyers out there (which I still stand by and thanks to people for their comments) ... BUT ... if people are dead-set on protesting, and you want a method that would work, then listen up.

It's easy for the board to shrug off protests when we're in a bad spot in the league because they know, if things turn around, most of the time things quiet down.

I think if you asked BK, "if Everton are in 16th in March would you expect protests on some scale" he'd say yes. He'd then (privately) say, "...but once we start winning again they'll forget about it."

If you're telling the board to leave when things are bad, that's pretty standard and they fully expect that; however if we're winning and you're saying, "not enough, get out" ... that sends a message.

Remember how BK looked at Wembley? If everyone at Wembley was supporting the team, but vehemently telling him to get out with songs, chants and signs, that's a much more powerful message.

Essentially, you ruin Everton for him.

When we're losing, he's not enjoying Everton, so protests are just misery on top of misery. I don't think (and I might be wrong) they would be that motivated to change if we keep losing and people start protesting because they expect that and also expect (rightly or wrongly) the protests will go away next season when (if) we do better.

If you have a go at him when we're winning you take away why he loves Everton. Deny him the ability to sit in Goodison and enjoy his team when they are winning and piggyback on Moyes success, then he'd probably leave. (Now, as I said, even if someone does want to sell the team, like Ashley probably does, it doesn't mean it's going to actually happen.)

Let's face facts, I know everyone will say "I always want BK out" but there are WAY more posts about protests now because we're doing so badly. If, (and I admit this is a big IF) we beat Chelsea, but the fans still took the time to send a message to BK, I think that resonates more. Or if (and again, big IF) we turn things around in the league, go on a bit of a streak, finish the season in the top half and the fans are protesting, again I think it's a way stronger message. If everyone just forgets about it when we start winning again (which, let's face it, talk of protests decreases every year when we go on a good run) then what motive does the board have to change?

Like I said, I'm not confident there is anyone out there to buy the team but if it's protests you want then IMO that's how strong you need to be. Cruel? Sure. Harder because you're happy and want to celebrate the team? Yup. Ultimately a waste of time because there is nobody who would be better? Possibly. However, not saying I agree with any of it, just looking at the situation purely as an question of how to obtain a goal, that method has a far better chance of working than just getting angry when times are bad.

Not huge figures there but thats where it can become a whole new ball game even before taking the other points of the circa 800m required to make it a real goer- that lost potential interest????- an 'investors' gonna want that lost interest back each year for sure- where is the spare 20m on Everton's balance sheet if the current debt is not also repaid?- this just amplifies your point beyond doubt and highlights further we do really need to find a fool & his money

Yeah it's depressing as hell when you actually think about it ... which is why I suppose most people don't.
 
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Can someone with a bit more know how than myself tell me what would happen if BK left the club?
 

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