Time for 4-4-2?

[neonleon]

4-4-2? Maybe worth submitting this to a poll?

The majority of Moyes' success has come with a five man midfield of some sort, even if its cahill playing as part striker part midfielder.

But at the moment our midfield is so bad, that even 5 midfielders look lost against our opponents four. Losing possession we are forced to panic defend, resulting in the classic hoofs up field to a Yakubu with only three defenders and goalkeeper for company.

Would it be worth seeing Yakubu partnered up front in the hope that they can not only score more, but hold the ball up field and take some pressure of the rest of the team? With Saha, Vaughan, Anichebe and players like Baxter coming through, this part of our squad looks up for the challenge.

The alternative is to continue with the five in midfield and hope that Castillo, Fellaini, can learn to play with a shockingly out of form everton midfield and a crumbling defence behind it.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

With Cahill out for a few games and Osman due to go under the knife I'm not sure we'll have much choice to go 442.

 

[kenada_blue]

I think it'll probably go 4-4-2 being that Saha is looking sharp and its time to give him and the Yak a good run.

Hopefully we'll appeal Cahill's red and at a push get it to a one game ban or over-turned fully.

But to be fair regarding Saturday's game I think some people are over-reacting a little. Our passing was non-existant and we played hoof ball, and yes they passed everything about better and we gave them lots of space.

But nothing came of it. We created a few clear chances, more so than the [Poor language removed] did. If Cahill or Fellani scored the game would've been different. Tim Howard had one save to make. Torres had 3 shots all game and scored 2 -- for over an hour he was frustrated by Jagielka untill he lost him. Unless I saw a different game.

We just need to start passing more, which I think will happen when Pienaar comes back.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

I think it'll probably go 4-4-2 being that Saha is looking sharp and its time to give him and the Yak a good run.

Hopefully we'll appeal Cahill's red and at a push get it to a one game ban or over-turned fully.

But to be fair regarding Saturday's game I think some people are over-reacting a little. Our passing was non-existant and we played hoof ball, and yes they passed everything about better and we gave them lots of space.

But nothing came of it. We created a few clear chances, more so than the [Poor language removed] did. If Cahill or Fellani scored the game would've been different. Tim Howard had one save to make. Torres had 3 shots all game and scored 2 -- for over an hour he was frustrated by Jagielka untill he lost him. Unless I saw a different game.

We just need to start passing more, which I think will happen when Pienaar comes back.

How can we be over-reacting? The fact we lost 2-0 with not a single shot on target is fair cause to be a little miffed. I wouldn't have been happy with nil nil. I think we were very fortunate Gerrard was off his game otherwise it could have been more than 2, and if it wasn't for the dozy ref, it would have been 3.

 

[toffeebhoy]

i didnt get to see the full game however all reports ive heard or read have us down for practically none on target now we can say what we want ...derby game ...ref ...blah blah but facts stick out if u r the home team and cant muster up more than 2 shots on target in the whole game u were very poor on the day

 

[GhostOfDixie]

I don't think there is any shred of evidence that we were ever in the game. Constantly on the backfoot, and more often than not we looked at bypassing a 5 man midfield for 1 striker.

Seriously, how thick are they? I mean I know footballers are by in large not very intelligent, that's just them - but surely playing a hopeful ball to one striker who potentially can have 4 or 5 men to beat, or pass it to one of 5 midfielders who have only 4 players to beat.

Its really not rocket science, so why the [Poor language removed] do they persist in launching it and hoping for the best?

 

[kenada_blue]

How can we be over-reacting? The fact we lost 2-0 with not a single shot on target is fair cause to be a little miffed. I wouldn't have been happy with nil nil. I think we were very fortunate Gerrard was off his game otherwise it could have been more than 2, and if it wasn't for the dozy ref, it would have been 3.

I meant as in overreacting on a Newcastle/Spurs level of "oh [Poor language removed] we're gonna go down". That's far from the truth in my eyes. We just need to find form and get things togther because we can play good football when we can.

In the 1st half we had a Cahill mis-chance, Felliani shot cleared off the line (or did the reff give a foul on the keeper). Riena was flapping, a few crosses that no one got on the end off, and Yak falling over for no reason what so ever.

They a total of about 4 shots on target. They didnt trouble Howard either for the majority of the game -- in fact he had to make one save from Gerrard.

We didnt play very well, and neither did they I felt. It was scrappy and for that 7 or so minutes when Torres scored it looked like a goaless draw in my book. They had lots of possession but little threat apart from that 7 minutes when Torres found space he never got in the 1st half and scored.

It wasnt a very good game for either side to be honest. If we were going into the game with a bit of form it could've been a different story, but we were coming into the game after playing poor in 2 previous matches -- how else did you expect the game to turn out?

I was surprised at how solid we were, how limited their chances were, and also the fact we had a few chances ourselves. That's why I'm saying people are over-reacting. We played [Poor language removed], defended well untill we dropped our heads, but they werent particularly good either.

I think our defence is getting it together now. We sort out he central midfield problem, how to use Fellani, get Pienaar back and give Saha a run, things will get back to how they were I feel. Its just taking its time.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

What happened with the Felliani chance in the first half where Carragher cleared off the line? Was that blown as a foul or something?

 

[kenada_blue]

I think it was pulled up for a foul on the keeper -- which it wasnt because he never touched him.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Sounds about right. With that and the Cahill chance we could quite easily have been 2 up, even whilst playing some fairly industrial football.

 

[evertonianstu]

Yes. Yakubu was woefully isolated on saturday and its not like sticking 5 across midfield worked against Liverpool any way. Yak needs support up there with him.

 

[kenada_blue]

Sounds about right. With that and the Cahill chance we could quite easily have been 2 up, even whilst playing some fairly industrial football.

That's the way I saw it. Plus a few free-kicks and corners (when Arteta actually cleared the near post) that had Riena flapping. A few more zipped crosses -- one that hit Felliani when it going to land on Yak's foot but he missed it. And when Arteta megged Aurellio, sent him for a mars bar, and crossed into to no-one are just a few half chances for a team who played poorly.

The [Poor language removed] didnt have that many if any chances are clear as that. When they did they fell to Torres and he scored.

I think Yak and Saha need to start playing now. He's looking sharp Saha and I think he'll be a very good asset to the team this thursday and saturday.

And....Pienaar needs to come back, Osman is supposedly injured, Saha's fit and Castillo looks a tidy player.

Moyes just needs to figure out his tactics because players are there to do something good.

 

[uknightbreed]

when you play 451 you have to rely on 2 things.
1.that a holding midfeilder tracks back to cover the center defence .
and 2. that the fullbacks get forward to support the wide midfeilders.

i suggest that if we are gonna play a dfencive midfeilder and get the fullbacks attacking then why not just play 3 at the back with 2 wing backs.

call me a nutter if you will but i would still would like to see 532.

...............howard
.........yobo jags lescott
neville........................baines
......arteta castillo osman
..........saha.......yak

perhaps against leige ?

(just a side question : after watching felleini attacking in the second half against liverpool . would any of you be slightly tempted to play him against newcastle upfront , alongside yak if saha isnt fit ? i know he isnt a striker , but perhaps his height could trouble most defences and be an advantage )

 

[kenada_blue]

when you play 451 you have to rely on 2 things.
1.that a holding midfeilder tracks back to cover the center defence .
and 2. that the fullbacks get forward to support the wide midfeilders.

i suggest that if we are gonna play a dfencive midfeilder and get the fullbacks attacking then why not just play 3 at the back with 2 wing backs.

call me a nutter if you will but i would still would like to see 532.

...............howard
.........yobo jags lescott
neville........................baines
......arteta castillo osman
..........saha.......yak

perhaps against leige ?

(just a side question : after watching felleini attacking in the second half against liverpool . would any of you be slightly tempted to play him against newcastle upfront , alongside yak if saha isnt fit ? i know he isnt a striker , but perhaps his height could trouble most defences and be an advantage )

I really like the look at that team nighbreed mate, I really do.

Allows Arteta and Osman to play in the middle more, so we'll look more compact. Gives Lescott the chance to play CB.

Its got me thinking that formation. I'd be very encouraged if Moyes does change it to that tactic.

Its what Pompy are doing at the moment but being their back 3 havent got pace, they get sussed out by long balls.

 

[gkpaul]

I really do agree that the Yak needs a partner up front. Saha up front with the Yak is a tastey sounding pairing!

I think both of them up front is enough to scare the hell out of any defence in the league. Power and class between them both I just think they will link up well. Then just as the defence are getting tired you bring on Anichebe or Vaughan to give them even more of a run around!