moyeslovechild
Player Valuation: £15m
impossible to argue with this isnt it ? He may be a dear old man but the man has been nothing but rotten for the ambitions of this football club
- Status
As we know it and I feel fine
- Calling people ‘entitled’ because they are upset about conceding 6 at home...
Posted by rookwood
on December 24, 2018, 5:55 pm
Edited by rookwood on December 24, 2018, 5:58 pm
Is lazy, cheap, and frankly a bit weird. Saying it’s a level of entitlement comparable to Kopitery is even weirder (and people saying it should wind their necks in tbh).
There is no question that some of the responses, particularly yesterday, are over the top and come out of emotion, but let’s face facts here.
We’ve just been beaten 6-2 at home, the players visibly gave up, we have conceded four, five or six goals at home at least once every calendar year for the past four years. In 2017 we conceded five at home twice in a matter of weeks.
As one poster commented yesterday, the annual hiding at home is a recent development - whilst there’ve always been really, really, bad results (Keeley derby anyone?), it’s only in the past few years that it has become a regular, annual occurrence at home. It had, of course, been going on for longer away.
Yesterday’s result was completely unacceptable, as was the performance. Yes, they are much better than us, but as was also pointed out yesterday, we have had sides fighting relegation that have not been destroyed like that at home by better sides than that Tottenham. Self-belief and character - and not being cosseted and weak - are important qualities and the club has lacked them for some time. Recognising that doesn’t make people ‘entitled’.
We are a team who are now close to a laughing stock in the Premier League. We are the most beaten team in the history of the Premier League. It’s not ‘entitled’ to be unhappy about that.
We haven’t beaten our local rivals at home in nearly a decade, and away in two decades. Our record against the ‘big’ clubs is appalling, and much worse than it was in the 1990s when we were usually fighting relegation. In fact, our last away wins at most of the big clubs came in that decade, when we were often [Poor language removed].
We haven’t won a trophy in nearly a quarter of a century. In the row behind me in the Gwladys, there is a grown man who wasn’t born when we won the 1995 FA Cup, and who has a child of his own. The man himself hadn’t taken his GCSEs last time we won a derby.
When I talk to him about Duncan’s first goal from that corner in the 1994 Joe Royle return derby, he wasn’t alive when it happened. It’s like my Dad talking to me about Ball, Harvey, and Kendall. But the difference was I grew up in the 80s. So I had my own era - Gray, Sharp, Reid, Bracewell, Sheedy, Psycho Pat, Trevor Steven. Big Nev. All of them.
So we could talk about whether the team of the 80s was better than 69/70. The lad behind me has nothing to offer. Moyes sides beating [Poor language removed] with regularity and doing very little else (and to be clear I think Moyes did, up to 2009, a very good job and a critical one for securing the club’s future) doesn’t really compare. He doesn’t even have the 90s derby record, when Everton didn’t lose at home to Liverpool for nearly a decade.
I think the current ‘Everton’ - the Everton of the twenty-first century - is utterly cut off from its past, and no amount of cool marketing campaigns about ‘home’ can change that. I think that’s why people react as viscerally as they do sometimes, and I think fellow Evertonians, whilst of course being free to disagree, should be careful before they start throwing around jibes like entitlement and Kopite behaviour.
It’s NOT about expecting 84/85 at the click of a finger, or in six months since a new managerial appointment, those teams and times are revered precisely because they are rare, and special by definition.
What it IS about is never accepting that an Everton side should give up in front of its own fans against any side, even one as talented as that Tottenham outfit undeniably is. Yes, we are a team in transition. But if we are to maintain an authentic connection to our history - and by that I mean the spirit of the sides of the 90s that beat the odds with comparative regularity compared to now - we cannot simply say we are a team in transition and accept the unacceptable. Yes, we are in transition, but we have been since 1987, arguably. At times modern Everton seems to be a team and a club (and this is not a dig at the current manager at all, who has only been here briefly) built on cowardice and excuses. They have to be the first thing to go.
I am probably unusual and in a minority here that I was uncomfortable with Moshiri coming into the club, I know this board is more sympathetic to Kenwright than some of the other boards, and so am I. My reservations about Moshiri were nothing to do with him personally - like everybody else, I knew (and still know) very little about him. I was merely concerned we’d just become a run of the mill train set for someone.
Some of the marketing has been astute (but this had improved before Moshiri arrived), focusing on the club’s identity etc. However, I’m also uncomfortable with lighting the Liver Birds up blue to troll Liverpool etc. It makes us look like we are defined by them. We are becoming the Middlesbrough of the North West, defined in relation to others (and negatively at that). Buy the Liver Building, great we have a rich owner. Light the Liver Birds up, great we have a rich owner. But it doesn’t actually mean anything.
People are upset because I think we are in a place where whether Everton actually means anything is determined by what the players do on the pitch, and that doesn’t mean even winning games, but showing pride in the shirt.
That isn’t really there anymore, so that’s why people go overboard, because some can remember when it was different.
That might just be modern football. That might what be Everton are doomed to be now - best of the rest (at best) a place where good players go to prepare themselves to go somewhere else. And even if it isn’t, because there is a clearly a plan to change that, however long it takes, results like yesterday make you feel empty at best.
Comparing that visceral reaction to an unacceptable performance to Kopitery is plain wrong. It is also worrying. Because it seems to imply that a section of the fanbase have become so alienated from what Everton used to be that they think conceding six on your own pitch without a fight is at any point acceptable.
Moshiri’s plan may work. Everton may yet challenge for things again. But in the meantime, that’s not reason to be satisfied with getting smashed off your own pitch without a fight. Some people actually described yesterday as ‘having a go’ - I don’t know what they were watching. - from another forum
dannyboy
Player Valuation: £60m
The longest spell without a trophy in the club's history and Bill has been a constant. The failure and fall standards should lie with him. He won't like anyone saying that. A legend in his own mind.
billyblue80
Player Valuation: £70m
Whether the OP said it correctly, we ARE viewed as a joke by most press. Our record against the top 6 is laughed at whenever we play them. How that, in and of itself, isn't motivation to beat the piss out of one of these teams I don't get.
So it's Kenwrights fault he wasn't a billionaire? How did he get ahead of the crowd of Saudi royalty wanting to buy out Peter Johnson?. If someone with the money wanted to come in they would have done, through fair means or foul. Money talks at the end of the day and there's no amount of Boy's pen reminiscing that would have deflected the combination of serious money and serious intent.
It's amazing that people slate Kenwright for his poor business acumen and his inability to keep hold of players but yet he was able to resist this queue of perfectionist billionaires lining up to take Everton to the promised land. Such was the grip of the power behind Blood Brothers that Russian oil tycoons, Emirati billionaires and Chinese investment groups could not dislodge him. Amazing stuff!
Driven into the ground? You must be new to this Everton malarkey. Nil satis and all that but let's not confuse current form for the club's darker days.
Goodison9
Player Valuation: £500k
I think for me I just don’t look forward to going to matches nomore, with having a season ticket it’s more about having a few drinks with the lads than the actual match.
We seem to hit abit of form, look like something could happen then fail miserably, season after season. There’s no real direction, we’ve spent huge yet seem to be far away than ever, that match on Sunday is the worst performance I’ve seen in years based on how we simply gave up after conceding a daft goal, we looked fragile and mentally weak.
We seem to hit abit of form, look like something could happen then fail miserably, season after season. There’s no real direction, we’ve spent huge yet seem to be far away than ever, that match on Sunday is the worst performance I’ve seen in years based on how we simply gave up after conceding a daft goal, we looked fragile and mentally weak.
It’s a joke, it’s all a joke, mother forgive me.
That really is you Bill isn’t it ??
Yeah, it’s Bills fault. We’ve been taken over by a multi millionaire. We’ve spent more than we’ve ever spent in the last couple of years. The optimism levels have been massive going into the last 2 seasons. It hasn’t worked out as we would have all hoped. So Bill is the scapegoat for all of this. Some of you need to have a long look at yourselves. Bill is the least of our problems. Is it bills fault we’ve wasted millions on sub standard players? Is it Bills fault Koeman turned to cack? Is it Bills fault we were beaten 6-2 and couldn’t beat Newcastle, Watford or Huddersfield at home? It’s like when everything turns to the brown stuff the default is to blame Bill. Despite all the optimism and chest thumping going into the season, not even that, 4 short weeks ago that optimism was still there. After a nightmare December, it’s back to blaming Bill. I despair with some of our fans, I really do.
Blackwell Livermore
Player Valuation: £8m
True we won't be joining the ranks of Manchester United (most successful club in English football), Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City, Blackburn and Leicester any time soon but I'd hardly call us a joke.
Irony surely that last line ?
Frang
Player Valuation: £70m
- Calling people ‘entitled’ because they are upset about conceding 6 at home...
Posted by rookwoodon December 24, 2018, 5:55 pm
Edited by rookwood on December 24, 2018, 5:58 pm
Is lazy, cheap, and frankly a bit weird. Saying it’s a level of entitlement comparable to Kopitery is even weirder (and people saying it should wind their necks in tbh).
There is no question that some of the responses, particularly yesterday, are over the top and come out of emotion, but let’s face facts here.
We’ve just been beaten 6-2 at home, the players visibly gave up, we have conceded four, five or six goals at home at least once every calendar year for the past four years. In 2017 we conceded five at home twice in a matter of weeks.
As one poster commented yesterday, the annual hiding at home is a recent development - whilst there’ve always been really, really, bad results (Keeley derby anyone?), it’s only in the past few years that it has become a regular, annual occurrence at home. It had, of course, been going on for longer away.
Yesterday’s result was completely unacceptable, as was the performance. Yes, they are much better than us, but as was also pointed out yesterday, we have had sides fighting relegation that have not been destroyed like that at home by better sides than that Tottenham. Self-belief and character - and not being cosseted and weak - are important qualities and the club has lacked them for some time. Recognising that doesn’t make people ‘entitled’.
We are a team who are now close to a laughing stock in the Premier League. We are the most beaten team in the history of the Premier League. It’s not ‘entitled’ to be unhappy about that.
We haven’t beaten our local rivals at home in nearly a decade, and away in two decades. Our record against the ‘big’ clubs is appalling, and much worse than it was in the 1990s when we were usually fighting relegation. In fact, our last away wins at most of the big clubs came in that decade, when we were often [Poor language removed].
We haven’t won a trophy in nearly a quarter of a century. In the row behind me in the Gwladys, there is a grown man who wasn’t born when we won the 1995 FA Cup, and who has a child of his own. The man himself hadn’t taken his GCSEs last time we won a derby.
When I talk to him about Duncan’s first goal from that corner in the 1994 Joe Royle return derby, he wasn’t alive when it happened. It’s like my Dad talking to me about Ball, Harvey, and Kendall. But the difference was I grew up in the 80s. So I had my own era - Gray, Sharp, Reid, Bracewell, Sheedy, Psycho Pat, Trevor Steven. Big Nev. All of them.
So we could talk about whether the team of the 80s was better than 69/70. The lad behind me has nothing to offer. Moyes sides beating [Poor language removed] with regularity and doing very little else (and to be clear I think Moyes did, up to 2009, a very good job and a critical one for securing the club’s future) doesn’t really compare. He doesn’t even have the 90s derby record, when Everton didn’t lose at home to Liverpool for nearly a decade.
I think the current ‘Everton’ - the Everton of the twenty-first century - is utterly cut off from its past, and no amount of cool marketing campaigns about ‘home’ can change that. I think that’s why people react as viscerally as they do sometimes, and I think fellow Evertonians, whilst of course being free to disagree, should be careful before they start throwing around jibes like entitlement and Kopite behaviour.
It’s NOT about expecting 84/85 at the click of a finger, or in six months since a new managerial appointment, those teams and times are revered precisely because they are rare, and special by definition.
What it IS about is never accepting that an Everton side should give up in front of its own fans against any side, even one as talented as that Tottenham outfit undeniably is. Yes, we are a team in transition. But if we are to maintain an authentic connection to our history - and by that I mean the spirit of the sides of the 90s that beat the odds with comparative regularity compared to now - we cannot simply say we are a team in transition and accept the unacceptable. Yes, we are in transition, but we have been since 1987, arguably. At times modern Everton seems to be a team and a club (and this is not a dig at the current manager at all, who has only been here briefly) built on cowardice and excuses. They have to be the first thing to go.
I am probably unusual and in a minority here that I was uncomfortable with Moshiri coming into the club, I know this board is more sympathetic to Kenwright than some of the other boards, and so am I. My reservations about Moshiri were nothing to do with him personally - like everybody else, I knew (and still know) very little about him. I was merely concerned we’d just become a run of the mill train set for someone.
Some of the marketing has been astute (but this had improved before Moshiri arrived), focusing on the club’s identity etc. However, I’m also uncomfortable with lighting the Liver Birds up blue to troll Liverpool etc. It makes us look like we are defined by them. We are becoming the Middlesbrough of the North West, defined in relation to others (and negatively at that). Buy the Liver Building, great we have a rich owner. Light the Liver Birds up, great we have a rich owner. But it doesn’t actually mean anything.
People are upset because I think we are in a place where whether Everton actually means anything is determined by what the players do on the pitch, and that doesn’t mean even winning games, but showing pride in the shirt.
That isn’t really there anymore, so that’s why people go overboard, because some can remember when it was different.
That might just be modern football. That might what be Everton are doomed to be now - best of the rest (at best) a place where good players go to prepare themselves to go somewhere else. And even if it isn’t, because there is a clearly a plan to change that, however long it takes, results like yesterday make you feel empty at best.
Comparing that visceral reaction to an unacceptable performance to Kopitery is plain wrong. It is also worrying. Because it seems to imply that a section of the fanbase have become so alienated from what Everton used to be that they think conceding six on your own pitch without a fight is at any point acceptable.
Moshiri’s plan may work. Everton may yet challenge for things again. But in the meantime, that’s not reason to be satisfied with getting smashed off your own pitch without a fight. Some people actually described yesterday as ‘having a go’ - I don’t know what they were watching.- from another forum
were in transition mate.. 2-6 home drubbings are par the course. I expect several more while we are in the transitional phase.
evertony
Player Valuation: £50m
That has to be written on the changey walls at The Pit.
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