carlos21
KING OF REP
Thanks mate.
The UFC and Mixed Martial Arts Thread
- Thread starter Mikey_Fitzgerald
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FTY
Player Valuation: £80m
He's not even that witty anymore.
Just gone the Mayweather route of talking about his money, and when his opponent responds he just speaks over them.
JAYTALITY
Player Valuation: £30m
I'd say Anjos people told him to not respond or even take what he says seriously so the American name kid angle was a card Conor played to get to him. Anjos looked progressively more pist off as time went on.
BREAKING: Cain Velasquez is out injured and Stipe Miocic steps up to take on Fabricio Werdum for the belt at #UFC196!!!
Article from Dave Meltzer way back in December 1998, covering Royce Gracie's first ever loss
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To a peripheral fan, it would seem like one of the biggest upsets in martial arts history. But in reality, it was simply confirmation of an age old saying, time stands still for no man.
Royce Gracie, the winner of three of the first four UFC tournaments, fell victim to a clock choke in approximately 5:00 losing a submissions only match to Wallid Ismail on 12/17 in a makeshift arena on the beach in Rio de Janiero, Brazil before what was described as a huge crowd to see Gracie's first-ever high profile match in his native country.
The loss for Gracie, who had turned 32 a few days earlier, was even more embarrassing for both himself, his side of the Gracie family and his supporters since even though it was not a Vale Tudo rules match and Gracie family members have lost under sport Jiu Jitsu rules from time-to-time, it was a match in which he set up the rules to his benefit and basically hand-picked his opponent for weaknesses to exploit under those rules.
Gracie had not competed since going to a now-legendary draw with Ken Shamrock on April 7, 1995 in Charlotte, NC. Since that time, in magazine columns and interviews he continually knocked the skill level of the competitors who had succeeded him in being the top names in UFC, knocked Shamrock for fighting for a draw in that fight, while watching from the sidelines almost with the attitude of the king watching the peasants fight. Many blamed this supposed public attitude on his older brother Rorion, his manager, who exuded this attitude from even before UFC began, and who actually brought the UFC concept to Semaphore Entertainment Group in 1993 and was part-owner of the show during its infancy period. Rorion used Royce's 11 straight victories over what really amounted to a group mainly of stand-up fighters with no ground technique, and a few far less experienced ground fighters to create a business empire and a family and business myth about the ultimate and unbeatable fighting system where size isn't even a factor, and in doing so, completely changed the world of martial arts and pro wrestling forever with the former having to acknowledge grappling is a lot closer to real fighting than the useless katas taught in tae kwon do academies, and the latter, particularly in Japan, relying more on chokes and armbars that the public realized were unspectacular, but real-life finishers.
Behind-the-scenes, while not doing anything to actually fix outcomes of fights, Rorion did exert pressure at times to keep certain people out of the competition, most notably after an inexperienced but powerful Kimo gave Royce such a hard fight that Royce won but was beaten up so badly in the process he was knocked Royce out of a tournament. While publicly claiming Royce went into the tournament ill, instead of trying to set up a rematch to remove the chink from Royce's reputation, Rorion pressured SEG to keep from bringing the charismatic Kimo back. After a stronger Shamrock, who Gracie choked out in 2:00 in the very first UFC on November 12, 1993 and thus considered him a very muscular powerhouse American hero type who would make a great victim for a return performance, had learned enough to go to a 36:06 stalemate with Gracie, bloodying him badly in the process, at a time when UFC had no judging, Rorion Gracie, realizing the game was catching up, pulled his meal ticket out. Shamrock constantly campaigned for a third match, including getting investors to put up $500,000 and for Rorion to put up another $500,000 for a winner-take-all PPV match, and at the meeting where they were to iron out the rules, Rorion said his side couldn't afford the $500,000. While publicly Gracie Jiu Jitsu in its teachings tried to propagate the myth that Royce, who weighed between 180-185 for his wins generally over larger men, was living proof that size didn't matter against superior technique, privately they knew better, that the odds are against a smaller man unless he was far superior in either strength, athletic ability, skill, guts and/or conditioning. He would only agree to fight Shamrock again if he would get down to 90 kilograms (198 pounds). During this same period, Bob Meyrowitz bought all the UFC stock away from Art Davie and Rorion Gracie and became sole owner. Gracie bowed out of UFC, at first to get married, but never came back publicly complaining about the payoffs, the introduction of time limits and later judges, claiming that being a smaller man, he would need more time to use his defense and conditioning to wear out the bigger man before winning.
Royce from most accounts had been wanting to fight over the past three-and-a-half years, but Rorion was reluctant to risk his financial empire and family myth. He shockingly was scheduled for a much-publicized return to fighting against powerhouse Mark Kerr for KRS in Japan early this year, and pulled out due to a serious back injury which required surgery. Many in martial arts were skeptical, although the injury and surgery were real, feeling that Kerr was the worst possible opponent. While there was a chance Gracie could catch him in a submission, the odds were against it and given the styles of the two fighters, it would be almost impossible barring hitting the home run, for Gracie to look good in the ring against such a powerful and skilled opponent. At best he could turn it into a boring defensive struggle.
Eventually Royce agreed to return to fighting on 12/17, challenging publicly challenging any member of the Carlson Gracie team. Carlson Gracie is the younger brother of Helio Gracie, whose father, Carlos Gracie, created this family dynasty after learning Jiu Jitsu from the Japanese at the turn of the century. Helio, who stormed out of the building at the finish of the match in Brazil, is Royce's father who was at 140-pounds, a legendary fighter in Brazil in the 30s and 40s who only lost twice via submission in his career, once to eventual pro wrestler Masahiko Kimura of Rikidozan fame, the other match in the 50s, when he was 53 years old in a match that went something like five hours before the younger man broke his arm when Helio refused to tap. The younger Carlson fought the man who beat Helio and avenged Gracie family honor by beating him and then claiming the title as the greatest fighter in the world, but the two brothers then feuded over who was really the God of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. The idea was for Royce to do a tune-up submission only match to test his recovery from back surgery, before fighting Kerr under Vale Tudo rules in Japan sometime next year.
Mario Sperry, the current heavyweight world champion in the sport version of BJJ, accepted, but somehow by this time, the fight with Ismail had been set up. Ismail, 30, a short bulked-up natural 155-pounder who weighs in the low 180s, was successful years ago in the sport of BJJ and in the more primitive days of Vale Tudo for his point getting ability in passing the guard and as a really tough little guy as evidenced by his ears. But he fell victim to the problem that faces all tough or talented little guys. His weighing too much for his frame didn't work against him as much in the sport of BJJ, because of the short time limits in the sport, but it did as he was soundly beaten in his two most publicized MMA matches, one to Yoshiki Takahashi at UFC, and more recently at the KRS Tokyo Dome show on 10/11 by Akira Shoji. In both cases, his lack of conditioning saw him completely out of gas by the 10:00 mark and he was a sitting duck for punishment from that point on. Royce's side insisted on no scoring system, and no time limit, figuring Ismail had a big name, but stylistically he'd be easy prey in a no time limit environment.
From several live reports, the fight can be simply described. Both men were cautious early. Gracie took Ismail down, and at that point Ismail started gaining confidence realizing almost immediately upon lock-up that Gracie wasn't what his myth stated he was. Ismail outmaneuvered him at every turn, with several reports saying that Gracie was making "blue belt" like mistakes from using a style that was described as being years out of date. Ismail himself was said to be shocked when Gracie gave up his back, and he was able to execute a clock choke, a relatively new maneuver that some thought Royce, with his expertise in 80s style, may have known nothing about and certainly wasn't ready for. The maneuver is basically that Ismail was at Gracie's side and was able to from that position, wrap his own gi around his throat and turn in a wrestling sit-out type maneuver to twist the gi around the throat in a choke. A stunned Royce wriggled around tried to fight the choke, and in doing so, only made it the grip tighter. He still refused to tap, and the ref, apparently afraid of a controversial stoppage, did nothing even though it was evident Royce was unconscious. Finally Rorion threw in the towel and Royce remained unconscious for about one minutes on the mat, and it was momentarily a very scary situation. The ease of the victory was such that even Ismail himself after the match was downplaying what will no doubt be his most publicized achievement of his career. He admitted going into the fight with little training and being worried about his lack of conditioning, but was relieved once they started locking up and were on the mat, saying Royce's skill was of a blue belt level and that any current black belt in Brazil would have beaten him.
You can subscribe to the WON newsletter at www.f4wonline.com
To a peripheral fan, it would seem like one of the biggest upsets in martial arts history. But in reality, it was simply confirmation of an age old saying, time stands still for no man.
Royce Gracie, the winner of three of the first four UFC tournaments, fell victim to a clock choke in approximately 5:00 losing a submissions only match to Wallid Ismail on 12/17 in a makeshift arena on the beach in Rio de Janiero, Brazil before what was described as a huge crowd to see Gracie's first-ever high profile match in his native country.
The loss for Gracie, who had turned 32 a few days earlier, was even more embarrassing for both himself, his side of the Gracie family and his supporters since even though it was not a Vale Tudo rules match and Gracie family members have lost under sport Jiu Jitsu rules from time-to-time, it was a match in which he set up the rules to his benefit and basically hand-picked his opponent for weaknesses to exploit under those rules.
Gracie had not competed since going to a now-legendary draw with Ken Shamrock on April 7, 1995 in Charlotte, NC. Since that time, in magazine columns and interviews he continually knocked the skill level of the competitors who had succeeded him in being the top names in UFC, knocked Shamrock for fighting for a draw in that fight, while watching from the sidelines almost with the attitude of the king watching the peasants fight. Many blamed this supposed public attitude on his older brother Rorion, his manager, who exuded this attitude from even before UFC began, and who actually brought the UFC concept to Semaphore Entertainment Group in 1993 and was part-owner of the show during its infancy period. Rorion used Royce's 11 straight victories over what really amounted to a group mainly of stand-up fighters with no ground technique, and a few far less experienced ground fighters to create a business empire and a family and business myth about the ultimate and unbeatable fighting system where size isn't even a factor, and in doing so, completely changed the world of martial arts and pro wrestling forever with the former having to acknowledge grappling is a lot closer to real fighting than the useless katas taught in tae kwon do academies, and the latter, particularly in Japan, relying more on chokes and armbars that the public realized were unspectacular, but real-life finishers.
Behind-the-scenes, while not doing anything to actually fix outcomes of fights, Rorion did exert pressure at times to keep certain people out of the competition, most notably after an inexperienced but powerful Kimo gave Royce such a hard fight that Royce won but was beaten up so badly in the process he was knocked Royce out of a tournament. While publicly claiming Royce went into the tournament ill, instead of trying to set up a rematch to remove the chink from Royce's reputation, Rorion pressured SEG to keep from bringing the charismatic Kimo back. After a stronger Shamrock, who Gracie choked out in 2:00 in the very first UFC on November 12, 1993 and thus considered him a very muscular powerhouse American hero type who would make a great victim for a return performance, had learned enough to go to a 36:06 stalemate with Gracie, bloodying him badly in the process, at a time when UFC had no judging, Rorion Gracie, realizing the game was catching up, pulled his meal ticket out. Shamrock constantly campaigned for a third match, including getting investors to put up $500,000 and for Rorion to put up another $500,000 for a winner-take-all PPV match, and at the meeting where they were to iron out the rules, Rorion said his side couldn't afford the $500,000. While publicly Gracie Jiu Jitsu in its teachings tried to propagate the myth that Royce, who weighed between 180-185 for his wins generally over larger men, was living proof that size didn't matter against superior technique, privately they knew better, that the odds are against a smaller man unless he was far superior in either strength, athletic ability, skill, guts and/or conditioning. He would only agree to fight Shamrock again if he would get down to 90 kilograms (198 pounds). During this same period, Bob Meyrowitz bought all the UFC stock away from Art Davie and Rorion Gracie and became sole owner. Gracie bowed out of UFC, at first to get married, but never came back publicly complaining about the payoffs, the introduction of time limits and later judges, claiming that being a smaller man, he would need more time to use his defense and conditioning to wear out the bigger man before winning.
Royce from most accounts had been wanting to fight over the past three-and-a-half years, but Rorion was reluctant to risk his financial empire and family myth. He shockingly was scheduled for a much-publicized return to fighting against powerhouse Mark Kerr for KRS in Japan early this year, and pulled out due to a serious back injury which required surgery. Many in martial arts were skeptical, although the injury and surgery were real, feeling that Kerr was the worst possible opponent. While there was a chance Gracie could catch him in a submission, the odds were against it and given the styles of the two fighters, it would be almost impossible barring hitting the home run, for Gracie to look good in the ring against such a powerful and skilled opponent. At best he could turn it into a boring defensive struggle.
Eventually Royce agreed to return to fighting on 12/17, challenging publicly challenging any member of the Carlson Gracie team. Carlson Gracie is the younger brother of Helio Gracie, whose father, Carlos Gracie, created this family dynasty after learning Jiu Jitsu from the Japanese at the turn of the century. Helio, who stormed out of the building at the finish of the match in Brazil, is Royce's father who was at 140-pounds, a legendary fighter in Brazil in the 30s and 40s who only lost twice via submission in his career, once to eventual pro wrestler Masahiko Kimura of Rikidozan fame, the other match in the 50s, when he was 53 years old in a match that went something like five hours before the younger man broke his arm when Helio refused to tap. The younger Carlson fought the man who beat Helio and avenged Gracie family honor by beating him and then claiming the title as the greatest fighter in the world, but the two brothers then feuded over who was really the God of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. The idea was for Royce to do a tune-up submission only match to test his recovery from back surgery, before fighting Kerr under Vale Tudo rules in Japan sometime next year.
Mario Sperry, the current heavyweight world champion in the sport version of BJJ, accepted, but somehow by this time, the fight with Ismail had been set up. Ismail, 30, a short bulked-up natural 155-pounder who weighs in the low 180s, was successful years ago in the sport of BJJ and in the more primitive days of Vale Tudo for his point getting ability in passing the guard and as a really tough little guy as evidenced by his ears. But he fell victim to the problem that faces all tough or talented little guys. His weighing too much for his frame didn't work against him as much in the sport of BJJ, because of the short time limits in the sport, but it did as he was soundly beaten in his two most publicized MMA matches, one to Yoshiki Takahashi at UFC, and more recently at the KRS Tokyo Dome show on 10/11 by Akira Shoji. In both cases, his lack of conditioning saw him completely out of gas by the 10:00 mark and he was a sitting duck for punishment from that point on. Royce's side insisted on no scoring system, and no time limit, figuring Ismail had a big name, but stylistically he'd be easy prey in a no time limit environment.
From several live reports, the fight can be simply described. Both men were cautious early. Gracie took Ismail down, and at that point Ismail started gaining confidence realizing almost immediately upon lock-up that Gracie wasn't what his myth stated he was. Ismail outmaneuvered him at every turn, with several reports saying that Gracie was making "blue belt" like mistakes from using a style that was described as being years out of date. Ismail himself was said to be shocked when Gracie gave up his back, and he was able to execute a clock choke, a relatively new maneuver that some thought Royce, with his expertise in 80s style, may have known nothing about and certainly wasn't ready for. The maneuver is basically that Ismail was at Gracie's side and was able to from that position, wrap his own gi around his throat and turn in a wrestling sit-out type maneuver to twist the gi around the throat in a choke. A stunned Royce wriggled around tried to fight the choke, and in doing so, only made it the grip tighter. He still refused to tap, and the ref, apparently afraid of a controversial stoppage, did nothing even though it was evident Royce was unconscious. Finally Rorion threw in the towel and Royce remained unconscious for about one minutes on the mat, and it was momentarily a very scary situation. The ease of the victory was such that even Ismail himself after the match was downplaying what will no doubt be his most publicized achievement of his career. He admitted going into the fight with little training and being worried about his lack of conditioning, but was relieved once they started locking up and were on the mat, saying Royce's skill was of a blue belt level and that any current black belt in Brazil would have beaten him.
Oh he lost? Just remembered this.
Azzurri
Player Valuation: £70m
Aye, big surprise like.
Rothwell submitting Barnett is very, very, very impressive. Barnett beat Dean Lister in a BJJ match and has never been submitted before. Amazing stuff.
Johnson too good in the main event?
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