The next manager appointment (new thread)

[Kevsleftpeg]

We also got 9 more points, beat United away for the first time in my life time, absolutely battered arsenal at home.

Utd and Arsenal were the weakest they have been for years. We beat both Arsenal and Utd at home under Moyes when they were considerably stronger and we held our own against an absolutely stacked Chelsea team. Arsenal occasionally hammered us for some reason. Again, Martinez had a much stronger squad. He added Lukaku, Barry, McCarthy and Delofeulo and only lost Fellaini. Our leading scorer the year before was Fellaini with 11.

 

[Goodisongang]

Utd and Arsenal were the weakest they have been for years. We beat both Arsenal and Utd at home under Moyes when they were considerably stronger and we held our own against an absolutely stacked Chelsea team. Arsenal occasionally hammered us for some reason. Again, Martinez had a much stronger squad. He added Lukaku, Barry, McCarthy and Delofeulo and only lost Fellaini. Our leading scorer the year before was Fellaini with 11.

Ok so any good result under martinez was because the "top 4" where weaker, and the team martinez built would have been better wiry moyes, just because?

Fair enough, have to agree to disagree, that first season under martinez was my favourite in my lifetime.

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

The Moyes-did-a-great-job-and-was-stympied-only-by-resources argument falls down when you realise he couldn't beat Wigan or Reading in cup ties when the opportunity to win a trophy finally emerged. A Man City side he routinely beat was all that stood between him and glory in some of those years, and he blew it against clubs with far fewer resources than us.

In the end, he just wasn't able to drag us across the line.

Having bigger resources doesn't mean you automatically win a one off game. City sometimes get beat and they lost to Wigan in a cup final not so long ago.

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

Ok so any good result under martinez was because the "top 4" where weaker, and the team martinez built would have been better wiry moyes, just because?

Fair enough, have to agree to disagree, that first season under martinez was my favourite in my lifetime.

Bury your head in the sand if you want but Moyes was playing against a Utd team with Tevez, Ronaldo and Rooney etc, a Chelsea team with Droga, Terry and Lampard at their peak, and an Arsenal team with Henry and Fabregas and a Liverpool team with prime Torres and Gerrard. The top 4 teams that year were significantly weaker than they had been before. Some legend status player had moved or were aging. I enjoyed that season a lot too but in retrospect it was all built on BS because what followed was absolutely dire. Moyes did an incredible job here.

 

[Drico]

Having bigger resources doesn't mean you automatically win a one off game. City sometimes get beat and they lost to Wigan in a cup final not so long ago.

Yes, but if you are going to give Moyes a pass for winning nothing because there was a big four or five with bigger resources, you can't give him a pass when Wigan and Reading put him to the sword when the opportunity to win a cup does arrive.

In other words, some Moyes fans want to have it both ways.

 

[Saint Domingo]

It was the semi final against 'them' that summed up his mindset for me. 1 up at half time and there for the taking, and we just sat back.

A Liverpool team with one of the best players in the world wasn’t there for the taking. We’d competed well in the game and it was petering out into nothing, we’d actually ridden out the Liverpool counterpunch and were coming back into the game when Distin decided to do the most unecessary back pass ever. He doesn’t do that and we probably win and go through to the cup final. Moyes also saw them off over 2 legs in the FA cup when they had a much better team than we did.

The mentality of Everton, Everton managers, and Everton players, will magically change when we get better players. Can only keep accusing managers of ‘bottling’ it for so long before eventually thinking it might be a good idea if the club just gave them the money to buy better players. It would be good to play Liverpool and genuinely have a better team than them rather than relying on a manager to somehow outperform them with worse players.

 

[Goodisongang]

Bury your head in the sand if you want but Moyes was playing against a Utd team with Tevez, Ronaldo and Rooney etc, a Chelsea team with Droga, Terry and Lampard at their peak, and an Arsenal team with Henry and Fabregas and a Liverpool team with prime Torres and Gerrard. The top 4 teams that year were significantly weaker than they had been before. Some legend status player had moved or were aging. I enjoyed that season a lot too but in retrospect it was all built on BS because what followed was absolutely dire. Moyes did an incredible job here.

He did ye, and i havent said otherwise.

But your just utterly deluded if you cannot acknowledge the job martinez did in that first season.

 

[Bluewolf]

I’ve come to realise the derogatory term ‘hipster’ when used to refer to manager choices translates as someone who has some knowledge of football and managers outside of ingerlund .
I wasn’t a great fan of Martinez , but his first season produced better football than anything Moyes produced.
Ultimately though it’s a matter of taste , some people enjoyed the style of football Moyes employed others simply didn’t.
It was the same for West Ham fans a club whose fans also prefer a more attacking style of football.
Football played with a certain swagger.
Just preference really.
And I’d prefer to never see him here again.

Not at all. It refers to people who are pretentious and consider themselves to have a higher knowledge of a subject because they are fixated with the obscure areas of that subject.

Martinez football in his first season was better then moyes? Id agree with that but his second and third certainly weren't. Also his first season success relied upon a defence moyes built. When it all went full Martinez was when it went wrong and id love to see a moyes side with prime lukaku like martinez had. Doubt wed of been hanging round 11th like Martinez had us.

Yeah, look at where west ham were before moyes, look where he took them and look whats happened when they got too big for their boots and binned him off. Both times straight back to what they were before him.

Sure get some young up and coming manager thats never proved himself in this league and what do you think will happen? Best case scenario we become a mid table team like all the other teams that have done that. Or worst case scenario their crap and we get relegated...but hey had 60% possession and we averaged 1000 passes a game and thats what really matters

 

[wainy]

The Moyes-did-a-great-job-and-was-stympied-only-by-resources argument falls down when you realise he couldn't beat Wigan or Reading in cup ties when the opportunity to win a trophy finally emerged. A Man City side he routinely beat was all that stood between him and glory in some of those years, and he blew it against clubs with far fewer resources than us.

In the end, he just wasn't able to drag us across the line.

Yet was still infinitely better than any of his successors.

 

[Bluewolf]

Give Lukaku to Moyes and he'd make him run the channels, he'd tell him Goodison loves a player who runs all day long even if they don't score goals.

Ah, yes because i remember Yakubu running the channels all those times...oh wait

Only time yak ran was to celebrate a goal.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Not at all. It refers to people who are pretentious and consider themselves to have a higher knowledge of a subject because they are fixated with the obscure areas of that subject.

Martinez football in his first season was better then moyes? Id agree with that but his second and third certainly weren't. Also his first season success relied upon a defence moyes built. When it all went full Martinez was when it went wrong and id love to see a moyes side with prime lukaku like martinez had. Doubt wed of been hanging round 11th like Martinez had us.

Yeah, look at where west ham were before moyes, look where he took them and look whats happened when they got too big for their boots and binned him off. Both times straight back to what they were before him.

Sure get some young up and coming manager thats never proved himself in this league and what do you think will happen? Best case scenario we become a mid table team like all the other teams that have done that. Or worst case scenario their crap and we get relegated...but hey had 60% possession and we averaged 1000 passes a game and thats what really matters

I remember the old Moyes boys unilaterally “going back to basics” when Martinez and his gash tactics had the club in free fall.

 

[Bluewolf]

The Moyes-did-a-great-job-and-was-stympied-only-by-resources argument falls down when you realise he couldn't beat Wigan or Reading in cup ties when the opportunity to win a trophy finally emerged. A Man City side he routinely beat was all that stood between him and glory in some of those years, and he blew it against clubs with far fewer resources than us.

In the end, he just wasn't able to drag us across the line.

Was this the reasing game where our main striker didnt show up till half time?

Or the wigan game which was Nevilles last professional game of football and fellaini decided he couldn't be bothered playing cm anymore because he liked playkng further forward and basically refused to track anyone or tackle anyone?

Sime fact of the matter was moyes operated on a shoe string and as such didnt have the resources to manage league and cup runs. He always prioritized the league because he had too.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Was this the reasing game where our main striker didnt show up till half time?

Or the wigan game which was Nevilles last professional game of football and fellaini decided he couldn't be bothered playing cm anymore because he liked playkng further forward and basically refused to track anyone or tackle anyone?

Sime fact of the matter was moyes operated on a shoe string and as such didnt have the resources to manage league and cup runs. He always prioritized the league because he had too.

Ah yes, it wasn't Moyes that didn't have an ounce of bravery for 10 years, it was the players (which he himself scouted and bought) then too. If only he'd gone to a rich team and failed, all while trying to poach our players for nothing as they needed to 'make the step up' or whatever (he also wanted to play it safe as he knew all those players btw). Fellaini made such a great step up then, wow.

Just like how Dyche will improve if he gets money, and definitely won't be the exact same dour manager he's always been his entire career.

I love the optimism.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Was this the reasing game where our main striker didnt show up till half time?

Or the wigan game which was Nevilles last professional game of football and fellaini decided he couldn't be bothered playing cm anymore because he liked playkng further forward and basically refused to track anyone or tackle anyone?

Sime fact of the matter was moyes operated on a shoe string and as such didnt have the resources to manage league and cup runs. He always prioritized the league because he had too.

Biggest mistake Moyes ever made was taking the Man Utd job. Not sure if Fergie deliberately set him up to fail, but it was a poisoned chalice. Sad thing is, had he hung around until Moshiri we’d probably have ended up a Top Four side ourselves.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I remember the old Moyes boys unilaterally “going back to basics” when Martinez and his gash tactics had the club in free fall.

The football between Lescott Baines Osman Arteta Pienaar Cahil Yakubu was fantastic, people deriding Moyes’ entire tenure as defensive cautious football is just rubbish. When he had poor players he played to their strengths (e.g Marcus Bent ran channels) when he had better players he played to their strengths (Yakubu waited in the 6 yard box)

If anything he was probably a victim of trying to play too much football in big games. Our diminutive midfielders would be bullied on the counter attack by Chelsea or Liverpool when actually we’d probably have had more success playing on the counter ourselves but when you had the ball playing midfielders we had in Pienaar Osman and Arteta then you had to get on the ball on the front foot.