The next eleven days..

[Zatara]

Would be happy with a draw with RS....win at villa and win at spurs. I think those results would see us looking down from 4th full of confidence

 

[deipnosophist]

Would be happy with a draw with RS....win at villa and win at spurs. I think those results would see us looking down from 4th full of confidence

hmmm...not sure about that. A 'confident Evertonian' is an oxymoron.

 

[Russian Evertonian]

For Stevenage we need to change the squad and allow key players to rest

Robles
Stones
Alacarez
Distin
Oviedo
Naismith
Heitinga
McCarthy
McGeady
Velios
Traore (if signed)

Robles, Naismith, Heitinga, Velios?
This team may have a problem to beat little Stevenage.

 

[WA Toffee]

Would be happy with a draw with RS....win at villa and win at spurs. I think those results would see us looking down from 4th full of confidence

No no no no no.
I could never go into a game - especially against those - hoping for a draw. 3 points is the target, 3 points is the expectation. 1 point does not make me happy. Oh, and win at Villa and Spurs too

 

[Christiffa25]

To me the most logical explanation for last night is that the entire team (including Martinez) popped a few sleeping pills before the game and they gradually kicked in as the game wore on.

What's the devil's advocate for keeping Ossie on for almost the entire game last night? I'm never that into the slating our players lark and Ossie has had some good days for us this year but last night I thought he was woeful. From reading the forum most people (all?) here agree.

So was it that the options on the bench weren't right? (I'll admit they weren't great but I'd take 30-45 minutes of Naismith over what Ossie had last night. Or Geads (yes!) on and Mirallas to the middle ... we had a few options.) Was Ossie adding value in other (very subtle) ways? Is Martinez worried about morale if he pulled him too early? What is it?

It genuinely confuses me when this happens because on the one hand it seems incredibly obvious that he's having a horrible game; on the other hand Martinez clearly knows massively more about football than we do and he left him on until practically the final whistle.

I'm not looking to criticize Martinez (or even Ossie really -- people have bad games) -- I genuinely wonder what it is that I'm missing because to me it seemed like a half-time (or at the latest 60 minute) sub was in order (not hindsight re: the goal I'm sure we all felt that way during the game). But Martinez is smart and experienced etc. so what would his thought process be?

I'm genuinely just interested in the thought process -- not in a "and then I'm going to criticize it" way. No judgement ... bad games happen and bad decisions happen. Just curious if anyone can make a case? What am I missing?

Very good post, laid down sensibly without fume with some great points. I was amazed at Roberto's role in the WBA game. You could see that equalizer coming a mile away. Osman was playing truly awful, and his best quality (holding onto ball) he wasn't even doing. Therefore they were coming back at us everytime we tried to get the ball away. Lukaku was just as bad tbf, he was not holding the ball up either....

Some radical changes were needed from 60mins. A change in personel and formation probably. I don't rate Naismith (been better this season) but if he can't get 20-30 mins on the pitch when were being overun and desemated by injurys then what's the point him being here?

Bobby messed up against WBA. Just as he did against Fulham in the cup, that night his subs were too late when a goal was looking invietable. Apart from them two games he's been pretty spot on tho so maybe there's things we as fans are missing to see from that game

 

[bicycleheader]

Very good post, laid down sensibly without fume with some great points. I was amazed at Roberto's role in the WBA game. You could see that equalizer coming a mile away. Osman was playing truly awful, and his best quality (holding onto ball) he wasn't even doing. Therefore they were coming back at us everytime we tried to get the ball away. Lukaku was just as bad tbf, he was not holding the ball up either....

Some radical changes were needed from 60mins. A change in personel and formation probably. I don't rate Naismith (been better this season) but if he can't get 20-30 mins on the pitch when were being overun and desemated by injurys then what's the point him being here?

Bobby messed up against WBA. Just as he did against Fulham in the cup, that night his subs were too late when a goal was looking invietable. Apart from them two games he's been pretty spot on tho so maybe there's things we as fans are missing to see from that game

I don't agree that he messed up. He looked at the bench and saw two players who were all we had to come in to the attack but didn't want to use them. If he thought Osman, even playing poorly was a better option than Naismith to control the ball, keep possession and perhaps create a chance then I think we would have to agree there. I think Naismith is done, as is Vellios. However we are short for options on the bench and he can't ship out all the bitpart squad players in one window!!

McGeady I would assume, he was reluctant to use at all.

Too much over-analysis of a subpar team performance. They happen.

 

[Christiffa25]

I don't agree that he messed up. He looked at the bench and saw two players who were all we had to come in to the attack but didn't want to use them. If he thought Osman, even playing poorly was a better option than Naismith to control the ball, keep possession and perhaps create a chance then I think we would have to agree there. I think Naismith is done, as is Vellios. However we are short for options on the bench and he can't ship out all the bitpart squad players in one window!!

McGeady I would assume, he was reluctant to use at all.

Too much over-analysis of a subpar team performance. They happen.

Nah don't agree mate, did you see Osman?? I'm not arguing the bench was limited, I'm not arguing Naismith is anything above average himself but ossie couldn't even run...he wasn't keeping hold of the ball, he wasn't offering anything. They were clearly coming at us over and over again. A change had to be made. It wasn't because RM believed our rock steady defence could keep them out.

He made a mistake by not changing it as the way the game turned out proved. Nobody is perfect and had we held on (which is what we were trying)

 

[Jeff Jones]

McGeady I would assume, he was reluctant to use at all.

.

Er, are you being serious, or have I misunderstood you?

 

[Ihaters]

Still think 2 DM's is unnecessary protection against average teams. We'd be a lot more fluent if there were more options ahead of us, also more able to relieve the pressure if some of our short balls forwards reached someone due to the extra body up there, it would certianly of reduced the need to go long ball the way we did.
Martinez had a poor game for me, one of his first imo, but its inevitably going to happen to everyone, we're on a run of average form in our last 5... 3 poor results and a couple of decent ones, and people are starting to get a bit twitchy...

But safe passage through the next round and a win at Anfield and everyone will be back to that buzzing feeling we had before chrimbo.

 

[degreeinblue]

Surprised how little attention Pienaar has got, I thought he was incredibly missed. Especially due to the fact Osman seemed to be playing left mid. The off the ball movement and simple passes Pienaar pulls off are priceless. Everyone needs to calm down, West Brom have drew with Chelsea away, beat United away, drew with Spurs away, drew with Newcastle at home. It's not the end of the world. We had our best player injured, our most creative player injured, our game changer injured, it seems all too soon and gloom to be 1 point off 4th having witnessed a hugely enjoying season thus far. We've now got much much needed worth back up for Lukaku, can you imagine either of them coming on against a tired defence? This league is still very very open and we have every chance of getting 4th. Our squads better than the RS anyway, could you imagine them with equivalent injuries? Spurs won't keep it up, we'll get 4th. Get behind the lads.

 

[Deco]

Still think 2 DM's is unnecessary protection against average teams. We'd be a lot more fluent if there were more options ahead of us, also more able to relieve the pressure if some of our short balls forwards reached someone due to the extra body up there, it would certianly of reduced the need to go long ball the way we did.
Martinez had a poor game for me, one of his first imo, but its inevitably going to happen to everyone, we're on a run of average form in our last 5... 3 poor results and a couple of decent ones, and people are starting to get a bit twitchy...

But safe passage through the next round and a win at Anfield and everyone will be back to that buzzing feeling we had before chrimbo.

I agree, however at WB the idea was to keep control against a very physical midfield. We couldn't have done that without both McCarthy and Barry, and even then - we didn't keep control anyway!

I personally think it was simply a bad 45 minutes. We clearly weren't the team we've been watching all season, and this can happen especially with all the injuries we've had in the team recently.

If we win on Saturday and Tuesday, we'll be absolutely flying.

 

[njligernj]

a message in which I accuse Leon Osman of being a werewolf ...

Still think 2 DM's is unnecessary protection against average teams. We'd be a lot more fluent if there were more options ahead of us, also more able to relieve the pressure if some of our short balls forwards reached someone due to the extra body up there, it would certianly of reduced the need to go long ball the way we did.

I agree ... although if I'm honest, without the benefit of hindsight, I would not have changed against WBA with our current injury problems. If we have Del, Barkers and Pienaar available we can easily just go to war against a club like WBA and just say we're going to score more than you.

However in the current situation I too would have started Ossie on Monday ... just being honest and no crystal ball stuff ... but I would have pulled him off at the half (in both ways: subbed him and then given him a handy as form of apology).

However to your point in general ... once we get some players back ... if we're going to turn all these draws into wins against the lower table sides I agree ... we might have to switch away from double DM.

In the first half he seemed to be playing his part (despite making some awful passes), and this could have been a reason to keep him on. Maybe Martinez was just thinking "they're having a good 10 minutes, I'll keep Osman on as we'll regain control", and this turned into 20 or 30 minutes and by then it was too late.

Osman is a bit of a teen wolf. I know RM watches an insane amount of tape etc. but he may not have seen enough of good day wolf-Ossie and bad day human-Ossie to know that they do not appear in the same place at the same time. One does not turn into the other at half-time -- if bad day Ossie shows up you can't wait around for good day Were-Ossie ... he's not coming today. Get Naismith on FFS.

Bobby messed up against WBA. Just as he did against Fulham in the cup, that night his subs were too late when a goal was looking invietable. Apart from them two games he's been pretty spot on tho so maybe there's things we as fans are missing to see from that game

Agreed. There are certain things we can't know: people being crap in training, attitude problems, some kind of cold/flu, an injury which doesn't keep you off the bench when we're short on options but might make RM reluctant to play you for 45 mins ... etc. They are all possible explanations -- but in retrospect they might have been better options than standing pat. Oh well ... it happens. It's nice having a manager like RM you trust to adapt more than most managers ... I know he'll do his best to get it sorted. As you say a derby win will Memento us all.

 

[njligernj]

Surprised how little attention Pienaar has got, I thought he was incredibly missed. Especially due to the fact Osman seemed to be playing left mid. The off the ball movement and simple passes Pienaar pulls off are priceless. Everyone needs to calm down

WE ARE CALM!!!!!!! DON'T TELL ME TO CALM DOWN!! ARRRGHHHH! Seriously though who isn't calm? I think we've been calm but also discussed what happened and why in a remarkably rational way for the internet. I may be biased (I am biased) but I think we're way more level-headed around these parts than other team forums. That said I do agree with most of what you wrote. Especially the Pienaar stuff. Lukaku, Barkley, Barry and others have gotten most of the praise this year while Pienaar has been under the radar being pretty damn good most of the time. Pienaar being out was the straw on Monday night.

 

[degreeinblue]

WE ARE CALM!!!!!!! DON'T TELL ME TO CALM DOWN!! ARRRGHHHH! Seriously though who isn't calm? I think we've been calm but also discussed what happened and why in a remarkably rational way for the internet. I may be biased (I am biased) but I think we're way more level-headed around these parts than other team forums. That said I do agree with most of what you wrote. Especially the Pienaar stuff. Lukaku, Barkley, Barry and others have gotten most of the praise this year while Pienaar has been under the radar being pretty damn good most of the time. Pienaar being out was the straw on Monday night.

I've seen plenty 'we will never get top 4' nonsense. As a squad I think our only weakness is central midfield. The teams around us haven't got better depth out wide than us (have the RS even got a winger?) and I think this will show when we have a full squad and start killing games off late on. Nothing wrong with being bias, we're nailed on top 4 for me.