Billy Dean
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Isn't the fact that a majority of labour members voted for corbyn twice sort of indicative though? Where are all the so-called "centre-leftists" or "centrists". They have a vote too.
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Isn't the fact that a majority of labour members voted for corbyn twice sort of indicative though? Where are all the so-called "centre-leftists" or "centrists". They have a vote too.
Well, clearly in this country it seems to be any attempt at redistribution of wealth through taxation, preservation of the welfare state and investment in the public sector.
Because they are 'normal' people who don't join political parties and get on with every day life. They aren't activists - the extremes tend to attract activists. It creates a bubble, where because one organisation is dominated by one philosophy, there's a belief that they are representative of the wider public. They aren't.
I'd have a guess that a lot of the Corbyn fans on here are members of the Labour Party.
I was just wondering what 'you' thought it was. If Corbyn isn't far left, what would you regard it to be?
Of course both sides promise the world and dont deliver it like Boris Johnson is doing pre election, its politics. Either the treasury will reign them in or parliament will by watering down and amending bills. Not sure what socialism has to do with it as Labour are capitalist the core always will be.
Financial Times are doing pieces analysing Labour's spending plans currently as they believe Corbyn lead government is likely in the event of no deal, £26 billion (1.5% of GDP) shortfall to enact all policies while keeping debt down. Not a fantasy if some compromises are made, taxes raised on higher earners and a potential land/inheritance tax. I wouldn't be adverse to them dropping or watering down the student fees abolishment as its not really vital compared to reversing austerity and investing in infrastructure that the tories have gutted to breaking point.
Does their analysis factor in the recession that many believe is around the corner and any impact of Brexit?
Jesus was about 33 at the time of death.
I assume so? If not it will be revised and watered down. I'm not saying the plan and manifesto is perfect just countering that they are fantasy magic money tree land. For some reason (mainly tory propaganda) Labour are seen as terrible with the economy meanwhile the tories have ruined the economy for a near decade, household debt has ballooned, most young people wont own a home, zero hours contracts thrive, public services gutted, and like you say they are about to be the ones that drag us into a recession and no deal Brexit.
Hyperbole is the name of the game in politics though isn't it? Public services haven't been 'gutted' as we still spend a higher proportion of GDP on government than we did in the early days of Blair's government, so a bit of perspective is required, as is an appreciation of circumstances. I dare say the majority of governments would have struggled in the wake of the biggest recession in a century. All things considered, the world has coped with this one much better than it did the Depression, so a bit of credit has to be given for that, even if in so many ways the Tories have been shambolic.
Fortune plays a big role in politics, and just as the great recession wasn't entirely Labour's fault any more than the subsequent years were the Tories, the coming recession is in large part a fact of the economic cycle (although Trumpism and Brexit will almost certainly play their part). We like to pretend that governments are omnipotent, but quite a few countries have bumbled along with no government at all for several months without disaster striking (Belgium springs immediately to mind), and the May government did practically nothing apart from Brexit in the last two years. For most people, life rumbles on, just as it always has.
Billy Dean
Player Valuation: £70m
Labour's 2017 manifesto was found to be very similar to that of the Norwegian labour party IIRC. Norway, the country with one of the highest citizen wellbeing ratings in the world. I don';t hear too many shouts about Norway being far left.
Maybe you can explain to me what is far left? (incidentally, you'd imagine the huge oil wealth Norway has perhaps plays a small part in their general wellbeing).
Billy Dean
Player Valuation: £70m
Well I guess it's subjective. I would consider hard left to be communism and hard right to be fascism. But people differ. Apparently some consider privatising railways and investing in the NHS to be hard left.
If only oil wealth alone were an indicator of well being. All those Venezuelans, Saudis, Iranians etc would be doing brilliantly now.
For sure, but Norway wouldn't be able to do what it does without its oil wealth. With regards to Corbyn, lets imagine he was in government for 3 terms, where would you imagine Britain at that point? Obviously one 5 year term would provide little time to change things, but 15 years...
Do you think people like Andrew Murray and Seamus Milne, both long time communist advocates should be so close to Corbyn given your own admission that communism is viewed as 'far left'?
I think you're being very kind to much of the electorate here. I can absolutely guarantee you that a very large number of people would happily vote for somebody who promised them an extra £15,000 per year in their pocket, without even giving a second thought to where it was going to come from.
On a similar note, is it a coincidence that the Communist Party refused to stand any candidates for the first time in 2017 and instead pledged to back Labour as long as Corbyn was leader? You 'suspect' that if UKIP or the Brexit Party took that approach with the Tories, then a reasonable accusation would be that the Tories had veered pretty far to the right. Indeed, they're quite rightly accused of lurching to the right as it is, and yet UKIP/Brexit Party still want them to go further, yet the Communists, who you regard as far left, feel happy enough that Corbyn's Labour represent their views that they don't need to stand any candidates.
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