Public transport is already heavily subsidised and it's still nowhere near enough, and we still subdidise it way less than on the continent. We've gone really wrong somewhere.
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I haven't owned a car in ~20 years so you're preaching to the choir. I'm just not sure it's as simple as saying "if we only make it a bit cheaper, lots of people will use it". In London it's used because it's generally the most effective way of getting around.
Sure, I was just adding to your point.
davek
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Rachelle Earwaker, Senior Economist at the Joseph Rowntree Foundation:
"People on low incomes are already struggling to afford essential journeys, which shows that the cost-of-living crisis is far from over. No one should have to turn down work or education opportunities because they can't afford a bus ticket. Raising the price of a single bus ticket by 50% will mean fewer people will be able to afford clean, green transport to get to school, work and their local high streets. "More expensive bus travel is a step backwards in the fair transition to net zero and contradicts the government's own approach to child poverty, which talks about reducing essential costs like transport. People living in ongoing hardship are looking to this Budget to show the government's plans to improve their lives. This latest announcement will leave them wondering what's coming that will actually make a difference for them this winter."
"People on low incomes are already struggling to afford essential journeys, which shows that the cost-of-living crisis is far from over. No one should have to turn down work or education opportunities because they can't afford a bus ticket. Raising the price of a single bus ticket by 50% will mean fewer people will be able to afford clean, green transport to get to school, work and their local high streets. "More expensive bus travel is a step backwards in the fair transition to net zero and contradicts the government's own approach to child poverty, which talks about reducing essential costs like transport. People living in ongoing hardship are looking to this Budget to show the government's plans to improve their lives. This latest announcement will leave them wondering what's coming that will actually make a difference for them this winter."
Don't students get free, or at least discounted, bus travel? Certainly in London, you get 50% off bus fares if you're on job seekers as well - https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/jobcentre-plus-travel-discount
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
The Joseph Rowntree Trust must be moaning about nothing, is this your considered position?
I am inclined to think for myself on matters, yes. Do you just think what you're told?
BullensRoad
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You're against public transport being subsidised for people who need it for work.
We should demand more from the government.
NilSatisOptimum
Player Valuation: £70m
It was always temporary measure though to support people through post pandemic, Ukraine war and mismanagement of economy by Tories, that together conspired the the term "cost of living crisis" , it was never intended to be long-term, and Labour's approach seems to be to lessen the help rather than dropping it altogether, a gentle return to how it used to be. Convinced this is a very small stick to be trying to hit Labour with.
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NilSatisOptimum
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We had free public bus travel at weekends in Wales, could go length and breadth at no cost for some years to encourage people off the road, was big failure and scrapped.
To be honest as always we allow, one or two companies to run almost all of the profitable bus routes. I'd much rather see them run locally again, as they still are in some areas.
Billy Dean
Player Valuation: £70m
In my experience of public transport in both UK (not including London) and Germany is that it is much cheaper and much more effective in Germany, especially buses which in my experience in the UK are awful.
Interesting one.
I think this change impacts certain areas more than others.
I recall getting buses in the South West and Manchester 15-20 years ago and paying near £3 for a short journey. More for longer ones.
Liverpool and parts of the West Mids were always lower and capped.
Is £3 for a single journey in 2024 scandalous? Most providers also offer better value on day tickets/returns,bor season passes. Which is probably what regular bus users/commuters purchase.
The £3 fare arguably only hits irregular users. Low income passengers should arguably get a discount.
Bus transport is expensive. It either entirely gets subsided by local authorities/the state, or we pay more upfront. One way or another we end up paying, directly or through taxes.
I'll be quite honest, a lot of the folk I see moaning about this elsewhere are the exact same lot who moan about tax rises. Folk want something for nothing.
I think this change impacts certain areas more than others.
I recall getting buses in the South West and Manchester 15-20 years ago and paying near £3 for a short journey. More for longer ones.
Liverpool and parts of the West Mids were always lower and capped.
Is £3 for a single journey in 2024 scandalous? Most providers also offer better value on day tickets/returns,bor season passes. Which is probably what regular bus users/commuters purchase.
The £3 fare arguably only hits irregular users. Low income passengers should arguably get a discount.
Bus transport is expensive. It either entirely gets subsided by local authorities/the state, or we pay more upfront. One way or another we end up paying, directly or through taxes.
I'll be quite honest, a lot of the folk I see moaning about this elsewhere are the exact same lot who moan about tax rises. Folk want something for nothing.
I have no idea really. It's been a long time since I commuted on buses, but I'm sure I was paying between £2 and £3 for a return fare in those days, nearly 20 years ago. I remember some time in 2008 ish Arriva stopped running a lot of the evening services in Luton and a company called Grant Palmer took over, which meant anyone leaving town after 6 was shafted as return tickets weren't valid across the different operators. Things got expensive quickly but this was almost exactly about the time I changed career path and had to buy a car anyway (Grant Palmer would later shut down the evening routes to my area of town altogether as unprofitable).
Like a lot of these things I suppose there isn't a single answer that applies across the entire country given the disparity local economies. With different degrees of poverty, types of job, the local geography and whether masses of people are travelling in a single direction or not (or even travelling at all), there isn't going to be a single standardised demand for bus routes or ability to fund them.
It does seem overall that this is one of those Tory traps left for Labour, totally unfunded beyond 2024 and forcing Starmer to either let prices crank up immediately or make some unforeseen spending decisions. Is a raised cap the best response?
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
It should be all free.
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