Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Bruce Wayne]

This is what a clueless 'kin merkin looks like....

What is the laffer curve for the UK in your opinion Dave? I can't help but wonder if "tax the rich" isn't a reductionist cry by those on the left, as though every government going is willingly leaving that money on the table for some reason. I mean it's well known, for instance, that Amazon play a handful of percent on their profits. Does that mean that rectifying that is straightforward? You'd assume not, or it would have been done already.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Can you give us an example of a government that cuttaxes and raised revenue?
Former British Prime Minister Gordon Brown increased the UK’s highest tax rate from 40 per cent to 50 per cent, and tax revenues went down - as did the British economy and the Labour government. And then George Osborne cut the highest tax rate to 45p and revenues went up

From Laffer himself https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/EA-SPRING-2017_TAX_LAFFA.pdf

 

[davek]

What is the laffer curve for the UK in your opinion Dave? I can't help but wonder if "tax the rich" isn't a reductionist cry by those on the left, as though every government going is willingly leaving that money on the table for some reason. I mean it's well known, for instance, that Amazon play a handful of percent on their profits. Does that mean that rectifying that is straightforward? You'd assume not, or it would have been done already.

I think you've missed the point by a country mile...and not for the first time.

This isn't a debate over the merits or otherwise of tax cut hikes and negative effects. The interviewer was nailing Starmer's contradictions by drawing his attention to what he CAN do if he would like to as PM rather than what he CANT do. And he floundered badly. Pulling tax raising levers is one of the things every Labour Government has made use of in the past...but then this isn't a Labour Party - which was her point, I suppose.

 

[orchard]

From Laffer himself https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/EA-SPRING-2017_TAX_LAFFA.pdf

Wasn't this distorted heavily by multiple one year tax deferments and therefore discredited?

What is the laffer curve for the UK in your opinion Dave? I can't help but wonder if "tax the rich" isn't a reductionist cry by those on the left, as though every government going is willingly leaving that money on the table for some reason. I mean it's well known, for instance, that Amazon play a handful of percent on their profits. Does that mean that rectifying that is straightforward? You'd assume not, or it would have been done already.

I think the discussion is regarding PAYE only, no?

 

[tsubaki]

Another reason to not vote Labour

Sorry, just seen this after posting my own comment.

Akehurst is a horror, and if it wasn’t him who said Labour were “shaking off the fleas” (about losing support over Gaza) then it sounds very much like something that he would say.

 

[orchard]

Sorry, just seen this after posting my own comment.

Akehurst is a horror, and if it wasn’t him who said Labour were “shaking off the fleas” (about losing support over Gaza) then it sounds very much like something that he would say.

Can't remember whether it's been discussed here or not, but did you see who Labour think is a good replacement for Corbyn ?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I think you've missed the point by a country mile...and not for the first time.

This isn't a debate over the merits or otherwise of tax cut hikes and negative effects. The interviewer was nailing Starmer's contradictions by drawing his attention to what he CAN do if he would like to as PM rather than what he CANT do. And he floundered badly. Pulling tax raising levers is one of the things every Labour Government has made use of in the past...but then this isn't a Labour Party - which was her point, I suppose.

How is it missing the point? As Laffer himself pointed out, sometimes if you raise taxes you actually get less revenue, so "maybe" that's what Starmer and Reeves are thinking? As it is, the latest set of accounts showed a budget deficit of £121 billion, so the government is already spending a lot more money than it raises. Maybe this is the grown up thinking he's talking about and you're stuck in the fantasy economics whereby you can magic money out of your bum.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Wasn't this distorted heavily by multiple one year tax deferments and therefore discredited?

I think the discussion is regarding PAYE only, no?

I'll probably defer to the bloke who created the curve tbh.

 

[davek]

How is it missing the point? As Laffer himself pointed out, sometimes if you raise taxes you actually get less revenue, so "maybe" that's what Starmer and Reeves are thinking? As it is, the latest set of accounts showed a budget deficit of £121 billion, so the government is already spending a lot more money than it raises. Maybe this is the grown up thinking he's talking about and you're stuck in the fantasy economics whereby you can magic money out of your bum.

Did it look like that was what Starmer was thinking? And if so why didn't he turn to that argument when he was pummelled into a corner and embarrassed about not being able to answer the question put to him?

 

[orchard]

I'll probably defer to the bloke who created the curve tbh.

Obviously, as a zealot, but from an academic perspective I believe it may have been discredited and I thought it may help a discussion that focussed on truth, but you're obviously not interested in that, so what's next, a phrenological conjecture ?

 

[Ming the merciless]

Oh

We’ve done “ told to stop “. Nothing happened. Now it’s time for “ made to stop “.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Obviously, as a zealot, but from an academic perspective I believe it may have been discredited and I thought it may help a discussion that focussed on truth, but you're obviously not interested in that, so what's next, a phrenological conjecture ?

Has it been discredited?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Did it look like that was what Starmer was thinking? And if so why didn't he turn to that argument when he was pummelled into a corner and embarrassed about not being able to answer the question put to him?

How on earth would I know what Starmer was thinking? lol I notice you haven't answered my question though. Do you think we're currently the wrong side of the Laffer curve in the sense that we're not taxing highly enough? When answering, please remember that taxes are already at the highest level since WW2 and the government is already running an enormous deficit.

 

[davek]

How on earth would I know what Starmer was thinking? lol I notice you haven't answered my question though. Do you think we're currently the wrong side of the Laffer curve in the sense that we're not taxing highly enough? When answering, please remember that taxes are already at the highest level since WW2 and the government is already running an enormous deficit.

Laugher curve I call it.

Who cares what some neoliberal economic theory says about raising taxes and squeezing growth.

You're grandstanding to zero-effect here, sonny Jim.

 

[tsubaki]

Can't remember whether it's been discussed here or not, but did you see who Labour think is a good replacement for Corbyn ?

I don’t know him but he seems a nonentity