The Final: Argentina v France

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davek said:
Yes. I agree entirely. It's also generational too. The people who watch Messi and laud him as the best ever have only known Messi. My generation has seen Maradona and Messi, and that's why IMO there's no comparison to be made: one was a football master full of invention and raw power capable of making football not a team game but a one man exhibition on the highest of stages; the other is a pure dribbler with great balance, but who always needs top quality around him to make his game tick.

This is not so much to do with pots won as a stylistic assessment.

There literally is no comparison to be made.
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Not entirely true Dave. My father in law (Italian born, moved to Argentina at 15) saw Pele, Maradona and Messi. He says Pele was the the best he ever saw but that Messi is better than Maradona. It's still only an opinion. I saw Maradona too but not as much as Messi. (neither did you I imagine, or the vast majority of people, due to the difference in tv coverage over the years).
I also think Maradona had more magic and invention (the Spanish call it 'fantasia'), Messi was more consistant and a better finisher. As well as being one of the best passers I've ever seen with incredible vision. Has to be said that Maradona was amazing in that department too.

I tend to agree with the idea that we can't reasonably compare players from different eras. Though it's human nature to try.

Must insist that it's really unfair to dismiss Messi as merely 'a pure dribbler with great balance'. Makes him sound like Peter Beagrie.
 
Jamo Martinez said:
Not entirely true Dave. My father in law (Italian born, moved to Argentina at 15) saw Pele, Maradona and Messi. He says Pele was the the best he ever saw but that Messi is better than Maradona. It's still only an opinion. I saw Maradona too but not as much as Messi. (neither did you I imagine, or the vast majority of people, due to the difference in tv coverage over the years).
I also think Maradona had more magic and invention (the Spanish call it 'fantasia'), Messi was more consistant and a better finisher. As well as being one of the best passers I've ever seen with incredible vision. Has to be said that Maradona was amazing in that department too.

I tend to agree with the idea that we can't reasonably compare players from different eras. Though it's human nature to try.

Must insist that it's really unfair to dismiss Messi as merely 'a pure dribbler with great balance'. Makes him sound like Peter Beagrie.
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Peter had his moments
 
Jamo Martinez said:
Not entirely true Dave. My father in law (Italian born, moved to Argentina at 15) saw Pele, Maradona and Messi. He says Pele was the the best he ever saw but that Messi is better than Maradona. It's still only an opinion. I saw Maradona too but not as much as Messi. (neither did you I imagine, or the vast majority of people, due to the difference in tv coverage over the years).
I also think Maradona had more magic and invention (the Spanish call it 'fantasia'), Messi was more consistant and a better finisher. As well as being one of the best passers I've ever seen with incredible vision. Has to be said that Maradona was amazing in that department too.

I tend to agree with the idea that we can't reasonably compare players from different eras. Though it's human nature to try.

Must insist that it's really unfair to dismiss Messi as merely 'a pure dribbler with great balance'. Makes him sound like Peter Beagrie.
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That's how I form my opinion. I never saw Pele, Maradona dominated in my early years when I was completely obsessed with football. Messi I've not really seen so much. Therefore I conclude Maradona is the GOAT.
 
witchdoc187 said:
That's how I form my opinion. I never saw Pele, Maradona dominated in my early years when I was completely obsessed with football. Messi I've not really seen so much. Therefore I conclude Maradona is the GOAT.
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I think it boils down to the base question of could he do it on a cold, wet night in Stoke.

I can't be certain about the guys you mentioned but Rory Delap threw bullets in any weather.
 
Jamo Martinez said:
Not entirely true Dave. My father in law (Italian born, moved to Argentina at 15) saw Pele, Maradona and Messi. He says Pele was the the best he ever saw but that Messi is better than Maradona. It's still only an opinion. I saw Maradona too but not as much as Messi. (neither did you I imagine, or the vast majority of people, due to the difference in tv coverage over the years).
I also think Maradona had more magic and invention (the Spanish call it 'fantasia'), Messi was more consistant and a better finisher. As well as being one of the best passers I've ever seen with incredible vision. Has to be said that Maradona was amazing in that department too.

I tend to agree with the idea that we can't reasonably compare players from different eras. Though it's human nature to try.

Must insist that it's really unfair to dismiss Messi as merely 'a pure dribbler with great balance'. Makes him sound like Peter Beagrie.
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I think it all comes down to this:

Could Pele, Eusabio, Cruyff or Messi have powered a team like Napoli to a couple of Italian titles when that title was the greatest domestic prize in world football?

I dont think so. That was partly a result of unbelievable football talent and partly a man supercharging a whole fanbase and city into believing it could be done.

Only Maradona could do that. He was superhuman.
 
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