The Final: Argentina v France

[Papa Shango]

The debate is over Dave. I didn't want to believe and I've tried denying the tax dodging midget myself. But he's the best to ever do it, and when his career is over and we can look at it clear-eyed, it won't even be close

Ignoring Dave for a second why is it "not even close"?

Winning a world cup shouldnt change it, either he was the best of all time (what a silly thing that is by the way) or he wasnt.

If we are judging it on World Cups won then its Pele isnt it?

Declaring footballers as the best of all time is a bit weird anyway.

 

[Prevenger17]

Ignoring Dave for a second why is it "not even close"?

Winning a world cup shouldnt change it, either he was the best of all time (what a silly thing that is by the way) or he wasnt.

If we are judging it on World Cups won then its Pele isnt it?

Declaring footballers as the best of all time is a bit weird anyway.

I'm just saying years from now, when conversations turn to who was the best ever, the vast majority of people living and watching football now will say Lionel Messi. The World Cup was the only conceptual barrier between him and Maradona and it's gone now. And declaring footballers as the best of all time isn't that weird imo, people do it all the time

 

[Connor]

 

[longers]

Maradona will never be eclipsed by a player who does a bit of dribbling.

You know this. EVERYONE knows this.

Why don’t you tell us some more stories about maradonas godly performances at Napoli that you never actually witnessed, that’ll convince everyone he is the best.

 

[bluelife]

Ahh the old 'mind games' alias for cheating/poor sportsmanship...

 

[Papa Shango]

I'm just saying years from now, when conversations turn to who was the best ever, the vast majority of people living and watching football now will say Lionel Messi. The World Cup was the only conceptual barrier between him and Maradona and it's gone now. And declaring footballers as the best of all time isn't that weird imo, people do it all the time

I didn't say they dont do it all the time! Of course they do, that is what I find a bit weird! Players are not really that comparable.

Pele played in a different era to Maradona who played in a different era to Messi etc.

Also heaven forbid we include goalies or defenders in the conversation!

Messi is obviously a wonderful footballer, he has also had the benefit of playing for ridiculous teams who bully and steamroll the other teams in their league on a regular basis. Of course you have to be good to play for a team like that too but would his stats (ugh) be better if he played for lesser teams in his career? Possibly, maybe not, who knows? Thats why comparisons and deeming players the best of all time is a bit odd.

Sadly Maradona's light will fade a bit in the coming years because that's what time does, same with Pele who is now seemingly not even in the conversation.

 

[longers]

When you go back and watch pele highlights on teh YouTube’s they really aren’t that amazing tbh, clearly great for his time but football has come a long way since his day.

Seems ridiculous to try and claim he was a better player than Messi, the only evidence (video footage) available to us to make our own judgement suggests that whilst boss for his era the quality of football was far lower in general.

Maradona on the other hand still looks special when you watch clips of him 30 years later. Same will go for Messi.

I’d imagine Messi’s legacy will live on longer than both Pele and Maradonas because his entire career has been captured on video for generations to come, a luxury Pele and Maradona never had.

 

[Jimishorts]

Davek in outrage shocker. It’s a fitting end to the tournament really.

That cape destroyed the World Cup ceremony.

How that happened I dont know.

 

[Nymzee]

lol

 

[DanB90]

The Messi vs Maradonna conversation is an interesting one.

For me, Messi is undoubtedly the GOAT.

But you also have to consider that’s Maradonna played with enough lemo in his system to last Keith Richards for a world tour.

 

[NathDogg]

Has anyone checked in on Piers Morgan?

 

[DanB90]

Has anyone checked in on Piers Morgan?

Ironic coming from one of the biggest cry-arses on the planet.

 

[NathDogg]

Ironic coming from one of the biggest cry-arses on the planet.

Can’t stand the tool. Should be in nick after the phone hacking.

Morgab is beyond parody now, the nonce protecting bellwhiff. His fangirling around Ronaldo was pathetic, and his continued rubbish about Ronaldo being the GOAT has been knocked into a tin hat after messi and his performances at this World Cup.

 

[Drico]

Ignoring Dave for a second why is it "not even close"?

Winning a world cup shouldnt change it, either he was the best of all time (what a silly thing that is by the way) or he wasnt.

If we are judging it on World Cups won then its Pele isnt it?

Declaring footballers as the best of all time is a bit weird anyway.

Yup. It's the self-satisfied tieing of everything up into a neat little bow of smugness that grates with me. Football is a simple game that can be played many ways by people of all shapes and sizes. That's it's competitive advantage. It's also a game of opinion. It's not a science. This weird needy desire to have a consensus "greatest of all-time" is bizarre. As said a million times, you can't compare accurately across generations because players now are not playing in the same environments or by the same rules as players from previous generations. The rules have changed on top of the natural changes brought by scientific progress.

Messi might well be the finest player of all time, but it's not quantifiable - it's a preference or an opinion. It's the collective forcing of this preference/opinion down the throats of people that irritates. It denies the validity of other preferences.

That said, this is human nature. Messi is a fabulous player with an incredible career and roll of honour. As the smallprint in the ad says, though, other preferences are available.

 

[Drico]

I’d imagine Messi’s legacy will live on longer than both Pele and Maradonas because his entire career has been captured on video for generations to come, a luxury Pele and Maradona never had.

Logically, yes. But myths require the dispelling of fact. The lack of video footage of Pele's career, in particular, has added to his myth. Maradona's career was effectively captured on video. Certainly, there is footage of every game he played for Napoli in their two title seasons - and more. And the Goal of the Century is seared into the consciousness.