The facts dont support the notion we've slipped away from the top 6

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Lowste said:
I think what it does prove is we always appear to perform better in the second half of the season

Always seems to be the case

All in all we finish between 6th - 9th, some season we excel, some seasons we dip

Overall we sit in a comfortable position in the Prem.....
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It's a fair point. But that in turn underlines that the second half of the season was pretty much of a muchness in the context of our usual pattern of rejuvenation and that the furore over "decline" has been exaggerated beyond belief.

What happened, in retrospect, was that we endured a shock to the system from end of November to beginning of January last season when we lost 6 out of 8 games. That memory endured more than the recovery - which was, as seen from the data I posted - pretty impressive.
 
davek said:
It's a fair point. But that in turn underlines that the second half of the season was pretty much of a muchness in the context of our usual pattern of rejuvenation and that the furore over "decline" has been exaggerated beyond belief.

What happened, in retrospect, was that we endured a shock to the system from end of November to beginning of January last season when we lost 6 out of 8 games. That memory endured more than the recovery - which was, as seen from the data I posted - pretty impressive.
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The second half of the season saw us have a clean fixture list in the league to run at and our form improved as a result of not being in Europe or the cups.

The problem is this is nullified by our competitors still by and large being in these competitions.

So you can't compare like for like. If you had a run of fixtures from other sides free of Europe and the cups, you'd have a point. As you don't, you don't.

It's this simple - the reason we were so poor early on is due to a poor pre-season and then we got overworked by Europe. The reason we improved afterwards is because we had just the league to concentrate on and our rivals didn't.
 
Tubey said:
The second half of the season saw us have a clean fixture list in the league to run at and our form improved as a result of not being in Europe or the cups.

The problem is this is nullified by our competitors still by and large being in these competitions.

So you can't compare like for like. If you had a run of fixtures from other sides free of Europe and the cups, you'd have a point. As you don't, you don't.

It's this simple - the reason we were so poor early on is due to a poor pre-season and then we got overworked by Europe. The reason we improved afterwards is because we had just the league to concentrate on and our rivals didn't.
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Hold on, we were the last English club left in European competition last season, so we had NO advantage over league competitors, the reverse is true.
 

davek said:
Hold on, we were the last English club left European competition last season, so we had NO. advantage in league competitors, the reverse is true.
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Ha that's me told, you're completely right!

I just had it in my mind we were out of it early for some reason!!!

Think that speaks to our squad depth then really - the improvement after coming out of Europe was bigger than our competitors in comparison to earlier in the season, suggesting we weren't suited to cope with the added demands.
 
Statto.com has a decent guide to form and shows the rankings and projected final points for the season. (It's down at the moment).
 
Tubey said:
Because it's not comparing like to like or looking at any context.

We were out of Europe for most of that time, and both domestic cups, whilst many of the others remained in, for example - both massive influences on performance.

It seems pointless to use 20 games and ignore the other 18. 'Form' would be your latest five games or whatever to look at the moment and compare to rivals. If you're going to use 20, you may as well use 38 - it's simply too wide in scope to glean anything useful from.
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But we know we were in abysmal form coming into the new year. The last 20 games have been a big improvement. Don't know why people are being funny about that fact. :Blink:
 
mythbuster said:
But we know we were in abysmal form coming into the new year. The last 20 games have been a big improvement. Don't know why people are being funny about that fact. :Blink:
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Because the 38 game season is a reflection of a total campaign and gives a bigger picture.

Fair enough, hands up, I screwed up on Europe above, but again things like squad depth, overall form and comparative talent is better gleaned from the 38 games than the 20, as you cannot compare like to like. For example, the run of fixtures over Christmas being congested, or certain players could be missing for clubs between January - August that weren't for the first few months, and so on.

So it just seems pointless to me. Form guides generally look at 5 or at most 10 games, and that's because anything beyond that loses a lot of its' point - the side 10 games ago could be dramatically different in personnel and shape to the side it is now.
 

mythbuster said:
But we know we were in abysmal form coming into the new year. The last 20 games have been a big improvement. Don't know why people are being funny about that fact. :Blink:
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I think there's a couple posting in the thread who aren't open to the fact that things are on the up and would rather all others were as negative in their assessment of last season and the coming season as they are.

I don't pretend to understand it, but there we have it.
 
Pleased to see this. With the squad we have we SHOULD be in and around the top 6. Anything less this season and Martinez should be fearing for his job.
 
davek said:
I think there's a couple posting in the thread who aren't open to the fact that things are on the up and would rather all others were as negative in their assessment of last season and the coming season as they are.

I don't pretend to understand it, but there we have it.
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"We're gonna win the league, we're gonna win the league, and now you're gonna believe us, and now you're gonna believe us".

Can't stand those negative nellies.
 

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