The Everton Board Thread (Inc. Bill Kenwright / Blue Union)

[Ihaters]

Finishing 17th makes you more money than finishing 1st.

The money you need to put into the squadto win stuff outweighs the finanical rewards. Winning silverware won't make us turn a profit.

That's true, though we're spending for 17th and getting 6th/7th... yet our debts are still going up. Lower the wages and ambition and you get less debt, less turnover and maybe even profit but at a reduced attendance.
Personally I think now is the first time to be going for it on a spending level though, its always a risk but a big name player whilst adding to our debt would increase TV revenue which is just at an unbelievable level.
That is almost all that matters at the moment.. TV appearences and the money that comes with it, big name players = increased TV, more money and the wedge to cover the purchase, also won't hurt your chances in the games.
Won't happen, we'll loan a 1st div player or something in the summer but that's not the point.

 

[Allezfan]

That's true, though we're spending for 17th and getting 6th/7th... yet our debts are still going up. Lower the wages and ambition and you get less debt, less turnover and maybe even profit but at a reduced attendance.

We're spending about 10th-12th and getting 6th-7th. We're spending vast sums more thaan reading or wigan are. Vast vast sums.

As for the idea that the attendence would drop is we were in wigan's position. I'm not convinced. Big clubs get big crowds even in lower leagues.

Financially we could reduce our expenditure to a third if we gave up on any on the field ambition beyond avoiding relegation and our income would only be reduced by the 8 million in prize money which is chicken feed in comparison. The TV money, sponsorship, merchandising and crowds probably wouldn't change significantly.

People are asking why our board wouldn't invest money to make us win something. It's not profitable to do so. The risks outweigh the benefits.

 

[Ihaters]

We're spending about 10th-12th and getting 6th-7th. We're spending vast sums more thaan reading or wigan are. Vast vast sums.

As for the idea that the attendence would drop is we were in wigan's position. I'm not convinced. Big clubs get big crowds even in lower leagues.

Financially we could reduce our expenditure to a third if we gave up on any on the field ambition beyond avoiding relegation and our income would only be reduced by the 8 million in prize money which is chicken feed in comparison. The TV money, sponsorship, merchandising and crowds probably wouldn't change significantly.

People are asking why our board wouldn't invest money to make us win something. It's not profitable to do so. The risks outweigh the benefits.

Normally but I don't think you can overlook this massive TV money and most importantly of course, its hard to judge 17th.. always a big risk of going one less..
I think they are probably walking the tightrope about right but I just wish they'd dip their hands into their enormous pockets and give the club a little cash so Moyes has something to work with.. Who knows... They may well get it back with interest.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

People are asking why our board wouldn't invest money to make us win something. It's not profitable to do so. The risks outweigh the benefits.

Some people maybe don't realise that the debt increase is in essence, an 'investment' by them, as they own it.

When any price is agreed for the share equity, the debt will be subtracted from it.

As for the risk / reward of 'investment', player investment funded by an owner is unsustainable, unless the investment creates incremental revenue via either increased gates, success money (e.g. CL), merchandising sales increases or sponsorship deal improvements. So a £50M 'player 'investment' would carry massive risk, as shown by our near neighbours recently.

 

[Sharpys top lip]

If Moyes could persuade his current bunch of players(the best he's ever had...his words) to finish off teams who have no right to ever be in touching distance of drawing with or beating us, and if the same Moyes would not continually coach all the goals out of his strikers, and if he would not use as his main second half tactic 'defend desperately ' we could save £40 million and still be in with a better shout than we are now of fourth place.

I have to agree with most in not all of that...

 

[D410]

Some people maybe don't realise that the debt increase is in essence, an 'investment' by them, as they own it.

When any price is agreed for the share equity, the debt will be subtracted from it.

As for the risk / reward of 'investment', player investment funded by an owner is unsustainable, unless the investment creates incremental revenue via either increased gates, success money (e.g. CL), merchandising sales increases or sponsorship deal improvements. So a £50M 'player 'investment' would carry massive risk, as shown by our near neighbours recently.

As far as I can tell the enterprise value will not be minus of debt, it should be but it wont.

Why... because off one thing ...Greed.

 

[LITLEJOE]

some people really think bill is at Everton because he cares ....ffs

 

[teameverton]

I don't want to inflame all the Kenwright haters in this thread but it's something I've always struggled with. What benefit is there to Kenwright and his minions if Everton aren't a succesful club? Surely, it would be better for everyone (fans, club, managment, players etc) if we were winning stuff all the time?

This is why I find it so hard to grasp the idea that they are not spending just to benefit themselves. Surely nothing would benefit them more than investing into the club so we can buy better players and thus challenge for more silverware?

Coupled that with the fact that I think Kenwright has a genuine affinity for the club, I honestly think that if the money was truly there to spend, it would be spent. Everton are a club who aren't staring at a financial black wall and are reasonably stable in an increasingly unstable market. You can complain all you want about the lack of money we've spent but the fact is we are still here and don't appear to be going under any time soon. What with football clubs dropping like fly's and the economy in a torrid state and only getting worse, survival has to be priority. I would much rather our spending be stringent and the football club I have loved for years survive than have us spend millions of pounds that we don't have and end up like Portsmouth or Rangers.

Just a thought

*Braces Himself*

What you are saying mate, is what the vast majority of Evertonians think,its just when you come on these forums there are certain pople who will post till the cows come home to vent their anger at Bill Kenwright.This of course is ther right, but they are certain ly not the majority.

 

[LITLEJOE]

What you are saying mate, is what the vast majority of Evertonians think,its just when you come on these forums there are certain pople who will post till the cows come home to vent their anger at Bill Kenwright.This of course is ther right, but they are certain ly not the majority.

if bill wasnt a so called blue...he would have been hounded out the club.

hes a phoney who lies to Evertonians

 

[nigelcoyb]

I don't want to inflame all the Kenwright haters in this thread but it's something I've always struggled with. What benefit is there to Kenwright and his minions if Everton aren't a succesful club? Surely, it would be better for everyone (fans, club, managment, players etc) if we were winning stuff all the time?

This is why I find it so hard to grasp the idea that they are not spending just to benefit themselves. Surely nothing would benefit them more than investing into the club so we can buy better players and thus challenge for more silverware?

Coupled that with the fact that I think Kenwright has a genuine affinity for the club, I honestly think that if the money was truly there to spend, it would be spent. Everton are a club who aren't staring at a financial black wall and are reasonably stable in an increasingly unstable market. You can complain all you want about the lack of money we've spent but the fact is we are still here and don't appear to be going under any time soon. What with football clubs dropping like fly's and the economy in a torrid state and only getting worse, survival has to be priority. I would much rather our spending be stringent and the football club I have loved for years survive than have us spend millions of pounds that we don't have and end up like Portsmouth or Rangers.

Just a thought

*Braces Himself*

Mikey my own view is on a day to day basis Kenwright benefits hugely via the kudos and contacts of running an institution in the EPL I think it helps his primary business no end opening doors hitherto closed. You only have to see and listen to him on TV and Radio to suss he really is living the dream. Most fans look no further than the points you raise so despite witterings on forums (to my mind of absolutely no influence) he's in clover.

Long term I can only summise his activity in hoovering up EFC shares left right and centre means the club really does get umpteen genuine enquiries a year making it as near a gilt edged investment as you can get.

It explains why Earl, Woods and whoever else with a stake hang on for grim death only an offer you can't refuse sparks the sale of such investments.

 

[mooseatingnome]

if bill wasnt a so called blue...he would have been hounded out the club.

hes a phoney who lies to Evertonians

So according to you, the majority of Evertonians are stupid because they are willing to look past Bill's mismanagement because he is a fellow blue?

Does this also include Moyes who describes Bill as a brilliant chairman?

Perhaps it's just you with some silly vendetta against Bill. Did he step on your pet snail?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

As far as I can tell the enterprise value will not be minus of debt, it should be but it wont.

Why... because off one thing ...Greed.

Based on what?

Bill can't re-write the rules of business, the value that any purchaser would pay would have the debt factored in, there's no escaping that simple fact mate.

 

[D410]

Bill can give an enterprise value inclusive of debt or without.....It is my understanding that he will not offer the enterprise value minus debt.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Bill can give an enterprise value inclusive of debt or without.....It is my understanding that he will not offer the enterprise value minus debt.

That's not how it works though, what are you basing your 'understanding' on like?

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Mikey my own view is on a day to day basis Kenwright benefits hugely via the kudos and contacts of running an institution in the EPL I think it helps his primary business no end opening doors hitherto closed. You only have to see and listen to him on TV and Radio to suss he really is living the dream. Most fans look no further than the points you raise so despite witterings on forums (to my mind of absolutely no influence) he's in clover.

Long term I can only summise his activity in hoovering up EFC shares left right and centre means the club really does get umpteen genuine enquiries a year making it as near a gilt edged investment as you can get.

It explains why Earl, Woods and whoever else with a stake hang on for grim death only an offer you can't refuse sparks the sale of such investments.

Thanks for such a civil reply Nigel. I know this is a delicate issue and I am wary to inflame it.

A lot of arguments are that it's more financially lucrative and safer for the board to under spend and have the club finish lower down the table than it is to spend and try and win things. It is of course safer to do this. As mentioned earlier, we have a pretty sizeable wage bill at the moment as it is and we're still only really finishing in the top 8 on a regular basis. There is no guarantee that if more money was spent we would finish in the top 4. To say that it's more beneficial for Kenwright if we finish 17th than 4th every year though is nothing short of madness. Look at Arsenal. They have had regular Champions League football for years and have a decent bank balance that they simply refuse to spend. Ofcourse it would be better for any club if they always finished in the top 4 of their domestic league.

If Kenwright is really using the club to aid his other businesses then surely it would be better for him if we were in the Champions League all the time? Ignoring the financial rewards, the boost to the clubs reputation would really assist in his outside endeavours would it not?

Look at the owners of Rangers for proof of this. They spent money they didn't have so they could win a number of SPL Titles. Their owner was using the clubs success to get into positions of authority in both business and political world. Meanwhile, Celtic were selling their best players and being finanncially prudent. Their fans were complaining constantly. Ever read Dominik Diamonds book "Celtic and Me"? Every other paragraph he complains about how the board weren't spending when Strachan was winning stuff hand over fist. This was before Rangers collapsed. I'm sure he feels differently now.

The comparisons to Leeds don't really work either. Their board spent money they didn't have in order to qualify for the Champions League. When that didn't happen, it all went to hell. If they had been a bit more conservative in their spending, they may never have gone down in the first place.

I'm not saying I'm a Kenwright fan but I think he may as well have hooves for all the scapegoating that's going on.