The EU deal

[peteblue]

I'm intrigued, mate... I need you to elaborate a little more for me here - what trade relations are the UK going to enjoy with EU members post-Brexit? What changes will occur with respect to tariff and non-tariff barriers, for example?

The Eu does more trade with us than we do with them. We are one of Germanys biggest trading partners, France sells far more food to us than the other way around, the Danish PM has already stated that a Brexit would bankrupt his country without an agreement. A trade agreement will be put in place on equal terms. If they wish to put tariffs on then BMW'S will double in price, so it will be sorted. In terms of deals done around the globe via the Eu, we are signatories as an individual country and those agreements remain in place, they are not effected because we leave the club. In my opinion, nothing will change, and if they do it will be to the detriment of the Eu and they know that........

 

[dandydan]

I'm intrigued, mate... I need you to elaborate a little more for me here - what trade relations are the UK going to enjoy with EU members post-Brexit? What changes will occur with respect to tariff and non-tariff barriers, for example?

Once again we have the scenario of the French government telling their farmers they can't sell their produce to us. And again good luck with that mr hollande.

 

[peteblue]

Wouldnt VW, Audi, Mercedes, Renault, Fiat, and Lego be quite keen to keep flogging us stuff?

And wine.

No mate, they will say that the UK is out of the EU so you can't have any of our stuff, even though you are our largest market......

 

[roydo]

No mate, they will say that the UK is out of the EU so you can't have any of our stuff, even though you are our largest market......

Jaguar Land Rover's biggest market is not the EU.

And I am pretty sure Mericans buy German cars. Probably not Fiats and Renaults mind. They aint daft.

 

[peteblue]

Literally anyone in the world would be better than them, and I include the Chinese and Russians in that.

Do you speak Chinese or Russian ? Have you noticed that neither country is very welcoming of other peoples and that immigration is somewhat lower than that of the UK or the USA.....anyway each to their own.......

 

[peteblue]

Jaguar Land Rover's biggest market is not the EU.

And I am pretty sure Mericans buy German cars. Probably not Fiats and Renaults mind. They aint daft.

Trade is trade. The big companies will not allow silly politicians to get in the way of business.......

 

[peteblue]

Turkey will abandon a deal with the European Union to reduce migrant flows if its citizens are not granted visa-free travel to most of the continent.

With the two sides locked in an increasingly-bitter standoff, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said it was 'impossible' for Ankara to change anti-terror laws that Brussels wants to see narrowed in exchange for the visa-free travel to the Schengen zone.

'We have told them 'we are not threatening you' but there's a reality. We have signed two deals with you (the EU) and both are interlinked,' Cavusoglu told a small group of journalists.

'This is not a threat but what is required from an agreement,' he said.

Building on a threat by President Recep Tayyip Erdogan last week, Cavusoglu said Turkey would use 'administrative' measures to block the deal if needed.......

 

[Cypher]

I haven't followed most of this thread, so I don't know what's been stated on either side re: immigration, but there is a common misconception generally amongst remainers that brexiters are anti-immigration.

I think this is intentionally simplistic so they can call us xenophobic and racists.

I am pro-immigration, it is essential to any major industrialised economy and I love the UK to be seen as a land of opportunity and fairness.

But what we have today is not fair. It is a fact that ambitious, hard-working and educated people from all over the world are routinely denied entry or put to the back of the queue to control immigration figures because we are obliged to accept anyone from within the EU, regardless of their background. Anyone can see how unfair and completely unbalanced that is. This opinion is clearly not racist, not isolationist, but the exact opposite.

Being against immigration is neither xenophobic or racist but I agree Brexiters aren't necessarily against immigration.

However a society that relies on importing cheap labour while those that would normally work those jobs are dependent on debt and government benefits paid for by government debt ultimately isn't sustainable and the financial crisis was the canary in the coalmine.

You can and should only bring in the people you need but not to replace the existing workforce because it's cheaper for our company bosses.

 

[daylightrobber]

Some facts on the proposed Turkey/EU agreement to hopefully alleviate some worries.


The visa deal will allow Turkish citizens to travel to the EU for 90 days at a time, within any 180-day period, for “business, touristic or family purposes”. There’s no right to live or work in the EU, and the agreement only applies to Schengen zone countries. It will have no impact on the UK or Ireland.

As well as tying Turkey into new readmission obligations, the visa liberalisation “roadmap” includes 72 criteria it must fulfill before visa-free travel is agreed. These range from immigration criteria such as document control and border security, to public order and Turkish citizens’ rights. The European Commission also has to assess the migration and security impact of relaxing visa restrictions on Turkish passport holders.

This is not the free for all the the Leave campaign would have us believe.

 

[Cypher]

Pete. My point is that the EU pulls countries up to standards not the reverse. Does not always work, can always do better but that is the principle and one worth contributing to.
Also, the EU business grants and structural funds available in the past were vital to keeping areas like Liverpool from drowning. Just have a look at EU funded projects in the city and the grants that have been available. It has kick started lots of development. Ask anyone from the council. All the private money came in later on the back of EU investment. Speke/Garston a highly succesful example. Next Albania

The problem with that is with the expansion of the EU Britain and places like Liverpool are going to start getting an ever decreasing slice of that pie but will probably be "asked" to pay more. Simply because now Britain is relatively affluent compared to the new and soon to be new members.

 

[Hibbertinho]

The Eu does more trade with us than we do with them. We are one of Germanys biggest trading partners, France sells far more food to us than the other way around, the Danish PM has already stated that a Brexit would bankrupt his country without an agreement. A trade agreement will be put in place on equal terms. If they wish to put tariffs on then BMW'S will double in price, so it will be sorted. In terms of deals done around the globe via the Eu, we are signatories as an individual country and those agreements remain in place, they are not effected because we leave the club. In my opinion, nothing will change, and if they do it will be to the detriment of the Eu and they know that........

Sorry, I'm not really any clearer from any of that, in terms of what the main approach will be once we vote to leave? If it's going to be as easy as you say then I am both embarrassed for not yet grasping it and eager for you to outline the general strategy, for once we leave.

Please don't think I was suggesting that there would be no trade with EU members - that would be silly. I'm merely interested in the ease at which we will immediately (I'm sure it's fine to assume so) 'renegotiate'...

Are you saying that we are going to attempt to maintain some degree of access to the single market, i.e. our biggest export market? If 'nothing changes', does that mean that we will maintain total access without having to renegotiate with each individual EU-27 member, and that it will happen straight away, without any contributions to the EU budget or accepting free movement of EU citizens?

To keep it simple (for me), let's concentrate on Germany then; how far will they go to offer us good terms of access to the common market? What political logic would make them want to give us as favourable terms as before? It earns 3% of its GDP from export to the UK (as much as it does to its immediate neighbours, Poland + Czech Republic, combined) - its import of UK goods amount to less than half that value.

Of course, this is just concerning goods here - what about regulations for services? Would London's dominance be preserved as a financial centre with euro-denominated finance, or would it be treated as 'offshore'?

I'm just really keen to understand so that I can get on board.

 

[Cypher]

2 pieces of research come to mind. One from Bristol University which is UK specific, one from Stanford and The Sorbonne in Paris which was Europe wide. Out and about right now, will see if I can find some info.

Care to link the Bristol one?

 

[Rob17896]

The problem with that is with the expansion of the EU Britain and places like Liverpool are going to start getting an ever decreasing slice of that pie but will probably be "asked" to pay more. Simply because now Britain is relatively affluent compared to the new and soon to be new members.

We have benefited and I dont see a problem in giving someone else a lift.

 

[Hibbertinho]

Trade is trade. The big companies will not allow silly politicians to get in the way of business.......

Yeah you're right actually. Trade is trade. Is trade.

Just wondering what free trade deal we will get, and where that places us against EU competitors - you know, the ones who get a veto on any replacement deal?

And, in turn, what will that do to the long term manufacturing investment in the UK, from which the same EU competitors could stand to get a piece of instead?

 

[Cypher]

Sorry, I'm not really any clearer from any of that, in terms of what the main approach will be once we vote to leave? If it's going to be as easy as you say then I am both embarrassed for not yet grasping it and eager for you to outline the general strategy, for once we leave.

Please don't think I was suggesting that there would be no trade with EU members - that would be silly. I'm merely interested in the ease at which we will immediately (I'm sure it's fine to assume so) 'renegotiate'...

Are you saying that we are going to attempt to maintain some degree of access to the single market, i.e. our biggest export market? If 'nothing changes', does that mean that we will maintain total access without having to renegotiate with each individual EU-27 member, and that it will happen straight away, without any contributions to the EU budget or accepting free movement of EU citizens?

To keep it simple (for me), let's concentrate on Germany then; how far will they go to offer us good terms of access to the common market? What political logic would make them want to give us as favourable terms as before? It earns 3% of its GDP from export to the UK (as much as it does to its immediate neighbours, Poland + Czech Republic, combined) - its import of UK goods amount to less than half that value.

Of course, this is just concerning goods here - what about regulations for services? Would London's dominance be preserved as a financial centre with euro-denominated finance, or would it be treated as 'offshore'?

I'm just really keen to understand so that I can get on board.

It benefits no one to have tariffs imposed. As for the 3%. It may be only 3% for the German GDP however what % is it for their car industry. Are you really suggesting they will ignore their car industry and it's workers who would lose their jobs who are demanding a quick agreement?

I would imagine that we would continue on as if we are members of the EU (obviously with no say on anything) while new negotiations took place.