The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[roydo]

Really? So for almost the past 5 years the Tories have had no responsibility for cracking down on tax avoidance? None of this is their fault? Wow.

Haha! You really dont understand. Brown introduced tons of complex scheme for years which folk like Tory Jimmy Carr and Tory Chris Moyles "invested" in. HMRC pleaded with Brown to give them powers to attack them. He denied them. (Protecting his mates he must have been by your logic). The current Government gave HMRC the powers to act.

 

[Coach]

So what? If you are suggesting that, I assume, Tory MPs in some way profit from NHS tenders, then how come it has only increased by 1% in 4 years in England, but by 22% in one year in Scotland?

Who cares?

You are missing the point completely.

Hint : conflict of interest is wrong whether it is in England or Scotland.

 

[Coach]

Haha! You really dont understand. Brown introduced tons of complex scheme for years which folk like Tory Jimmy Carr and Tory Chris Moyles "invested" in. HMRC pleaded with Brown to give them powers to attack them. He denied them. (Protecting his mates he must have been by your logic). The current Government gave HMRC the powers to act.

Haha.

Once again it is all the fault of someone else. Dat waz offside dat. I'm norravin dat.

 

[Coach]

Fairly sure it does. You're too blinkered to comprehend though which is fine.

Go on explain how.

 

[roydo]

Who cares?

You are missing the point completely.

Hint : conflict of interest is wrong whether it is in England or Scotland.

Yeah, sure, but you kind of weaken your arguing position by being nakedly anti anything Tory. Which in itself is fine. But when faced with facts or opinions that dont support your view, there seems to be little point in having a grown up debate.

"Boris Johnson Tax Avoider". Not in the UK. Asked about Livingstones tax deatils. Nothing.
"Tories aiding tax avoiders" Wrong. In so many ways.
"Private spending up 1% in NHS England over 4 years" Nothing, other than they do it 22 times more in Scotland.

 

[roydo]

Haha.

Once again it is all the fault of someone else. Dat waz offside dat. I'm norravin dat.

Fair enough. Your view is so blinkered, debate is pointless.

 

[The Esk]

I like how he just ignores it when you post facts like this and carries on with his blinkered tosh.

Except that the facts quoted are misleading. £6bn on a total spend of £110 bn sounds insignificant. However not all the £110bn is put out to tender. In 2013 £16bn worth of contracts were put out to competitive tender between private companies and the NHS. 70% were awarded to private companies - that is the true extent of privatisation in the NHS in England with expected growth of private tender contract wins well in excess of 25% p.a.

As you say we should concentrate on facts.

 

[roydo]

Except that the facts quoted are misleading. £6bn on a total spend of £110 bn sounds insignificant. However not all the £110bn is put out to tender. In 2013 £16bn worth of contracts were put out to competitive tender between private companies and the NHS. 70% were awarded to private companies - that is the true extent of privatisation in the NHS in England with expected growth of private tender contract wins well in excess of 25% p.a.

As you say we should concentrate on facts.

Like the fact that spending on private stuff by NHS Scotland increased by 22% last year alone, while NHS England has increased by 1% since 2010?

*knows Esk will turn me again ffs*

 

[sd_1992]

Except that the facts quoted are misleading. £6bn on a total spend of £110 bn sounds insignificant. However not all the £110bn is put out to tender. In 2013 £16bn worth of contracts were put out to competitive tender between private companies and the NHS. 70% were awarded to private companies - that is the true extent of privatisation in the NHS in England with expected growth of private tender contract wins well in excess of 25% p.a.

As you say we should concentrate on facts.

A single fact in isolation is just as bad as the misleading facts you are talking about as you are still manipulating correct data to your own views. Do you have the numbers for previous 10 years (as would provide a good comparison between labour and tory) as this would be interesting.

It also ignores that as long as no one is being charged for healthcare within the NHS then the number of contracts that have been awarded privately is a pretty pointless number and might actually serve to alleviate some of the pressure that will eventually cause the NHS to get to a point where they will have to charge people for healthcare...

 

[1966efc]

Like the fact that spending on private stuff by NHS Scotland increased by 22% last year alone, while NHS England has increased by 1% since 2010?

*knows Esk will turn me again ffs*

 

[roydo]

A single fact in isolation is just as bad as the misleading facts you are talking about as you are still manipulating correct data to your own views. Do you have the numbers for previous 10 years (as would provide a good comparison between labour and tory) as this would be interesting.

It also ignores that as long as no one is being charged for healthcare within the NHS then the number of contracts that have been awarded privately is a pretty pointless number and might actually serve to alleviate some of the pressure that will eventually cause the NHS to get to a point where they will have to charge people for healthcare...

Good point that. Hadnt thought of it that way.

 

[The Esk]

Like the fact that spending on private stuff by NHS Scotland increased by 22% last year alone, while NHS England has increased by 1% since 2010?

*knows Esk will turn me again ffs*

Well actually to go from 5% to 6% is an increase of 20% but I know you knew that anyway

 

[The Esk]

It also ignores that as long as no one is being charged for healthcare within the NHS then the number of contracts that have been awarded privately is a pretty pointless number and might actually serve to alleviate some of the pressure that will eventually cause the NHS to get to a point where they will have to charge people for healthcare...

I'll reply to this later when I have more time, because the answer is fundamental as to why private provision within the NHS is not a good thing. I'm all for increasing efficiency but there is a very important reason why I'm against private provision within the NHS.

Will be back.

 

[roydo]

Well actually to go from 5% to 6% is an increase of 20% but I know you knew that anyway

Haha! ffs. Damn statistics. But even so, over 4 years, it is 5% a year, then seasonally adjusted, with real time inflation discounted and the cost of cigarettes increasing by a similar amount, I think, that, both Scotland and England spend money on the private sector in their respective NHS budgets.

But it is threatened by them nasty Tories only it appears.

Then we could also bring up them brilliant PFI deals..............

 

[Brennan]

A single fact in isolation is just as bad as the misleading facts you are talking about as you are still manipulating correct data to your own views. Do you have the numbers for previous 10 years (as would provide a good comparison between labour and tory) as this would be interesting.

It also ignores that as long as no one is being charged for healthcare within the NHS then the number of contracts that have been awarded privately is a pretty pointless number and might actually serve to alleviate some of the pressure that will eventually cause the NHS to get to a point where they will have to charge people for healthcare...

Precisely.

The best NHS is one which operates at the highest standard and is still free to the end user. Everything else is secondary.