Success?

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The 90s have left a mark.

95 was a blip, fighting relagation was the norm.

Our history means nothing to me.

Sure its great that we have such a great history, but it doesnt win us games on a Saturday.
 
johnnydawg68 said:
This is why I posted this here. I actually posted on a basketball forum after my Jayhawks had a meltdown and blew a huge lead to get eliminated from the title hunt. It's been a long time since I've been that crushed. And I posted the next day that I'm not sure why I even care about sports anymore, because all it brings is disappointment mostly. And then I thought...that's a crap way to look at it. So I guess I'm wondering if lowered expectations make for more chances to enjoy the sport? IDK. It's a question I've been pondering.
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It's interesting, because I moved to durham a few years back and now instead of mostly being surrounded by blues and reds who have all seen their teams win stuff, I'm surrounded by newcastle and sunderland fans who haven't. And they mostly would kill to be everton.

It's a weird concept, but there are clubs who view just being in the prem as a huge success (wigan) and clubs who view the same about the championship or the 4th flight or the conference.

The thing about english football is that every year at most 3 teams will win trophies and several thousand other clubs who theoretically could win those 3 will not.

I think to a certain extent you have to take your enjoyment where you can, a good performance, a young prospect, a good win against a big team, a derby win etc. There's nothing wrong with appreciating those but I think we shouldn't let our expectations drop too much.

We're still everton. NSNO.
 

Artetafan said:
Wait it was you who said "I've witnessed nothing but misery as an Evertonian, so for that reason when we are successful it'll be 50 times better than anything a Man United or Chelsea fan could feel. " not big mac wasn't it?

Sorry mate. But still my point stands, cup finals and european trips and 4th, 5th and 6th places are rightly thought of as misery at a club like ours. We expect trophies.
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Yeah, I don't see your point though?
 
Azzurri said:
Yeah, I don't see your point though?
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I said this "I think it was bigmac who said he'd literally seen nothing but misery as an evertonian. Tell a sunderland fan or a tranmere fan that he'd see what bigmac has and the guy would weep with joy but for evertonians 6th and 5th is misery."

And then I said 'oh wait that was you azz, not big mac. Sorry but my point still stands'.
 
Artetafan said:
I said this "I think bigmac who said he'd literally seen nothing but misery as an evertonian. Tell a sunderland fan or a tranmere fan that he'd see what bigmac has and the guy would weep with joy but for evertonians 6th and 5th is misery."

And then I said 'oh wait that was you azz, not big mac. Sorry but my point still stands'.
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It wasn't me
 

Artetafan said:
It's interesting, because I moved to durham a few years back and now instead of mostly being surrounded by blues and reds who have all seen their teams win stuff, I'm surrounded by newcastle and sunderland fans who haven't. And they mostly would kill to be everton.

It's a weird concept, but there are clubs who view just being in the prem as a huge success (wigan) and clubs who view the same about the championship or the 4th flight or the conference.

The thing about english football is that every year at most 3 teams will win trophies and several thousand other clubs who theoretically could win those 3 will not.

I think to a certain extent you have to take your enjoyment where you can, a good performance, a young prospect, a good win against a big team, a derby win etc. There's nothing wrong with appreciating those but I think we shouldn't let our expectations drop too much.

We're still everton. NSNO.
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Let me expand on that. I was watching the interview with Tony Bellew a few weeks back. And they asked him what his most memorable moment in Everton history was...do you know what he said? The Wimbledon game. Escaping relegation. I bet he's not alone. I bet for a lot of Blues, they've never felt that kind of adrenaline rush since that final whistle.

Wigan is a great point, and I was thinking about this yesterday as I watched the replay of the end of the QPR game. Every year Wigan play for their lives at the end of the year. Surviving probably feels the same as winning a trophy to them.
 
I'm of the attitude that I really am unhappy we can't realistically win a league title, however I would be delighted with european football as I think it's part of a building block we need to get the club back to where it was just before I was born-competing to be the best. I think it will happen again as well, City give me all the confidence I need in this eventuality.
 
Artetafan said:
He did, he did.

No derby losses, actual wingers. cup final wins. No manager since has reached the areas he did.
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He wasnt a very good Manager tho IMO.

I feel all his cards fell into place at the right time.

Thats not to say he wasnt a great Everton Manager, 95 was a special year.
 
Whether or not you consider fourth anything to celebrate or not I think the odds of us getting fourth are lower than the odds of a random team above us in the league right now winning something (Cup or league). Our "500% greater appreciation" for winning something is purely theoretical ... we aren't going to win anything ... so why does it matter if we'd "appreciate it more" or not?

I don't enjoy beating City or a decent (but ultimately failing) Cup run more than they enjoy winning something (even if they half expected to win something). While we may have less to feel miserable about after another year of failure I'd rather go with a chance of winning (more happiness) than less painful failure.

johnnydawg68 said:
Man City's expectations have gotten to the point where 2nd in the league and out of the Champions League is considered a failure. I understand that thinking from my other sporting interests, but it's a little sad don't you think?
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It is sad. However City fans lost their minds. Perhaps in part because they'd never been there before, perhaps in part to get at ManU finally ... whatever happened to them I would hope wouldn't happen to us. Maybe I'm being optimistic there.

ANYWAY ... to get to your point I don't think it HAS to be that way. While I'm aware that your daily reality changes your perceptions it is still possible to retain a sense of perspective. I was just thinking last night how my basement with a big TV, PS3 and a magic box which can download almost any movie, TV show or porno ever made would make the 10 year old me faint with joy. I've had it for a while, it's normal for me, yet it's possible to appreciate what you have ... even if most people tend not to do that. Believe it or not I know some Chelsea and ManU fans who do appreciate it -- I think it helps if you follow other sports closely (and don't follow a top team in those sports so you know what it's like to not be one of the top teams).

I've supported teams in US sports which won things but never a team which "expects to win things" ... I think that would be fun. I had a glimpse of it once, for one brief fleeting moment, and it was truly magnificent. Then the owners purchased Man U, the team collapsed epically and has been an utter failure ever since. It doesn't seem better now.

johnnydawg68 said:
I mean if we finished 4th, we'd be giving each other reach arounds all day long. 2nd? The Romans wouldn't have had nothing on us. Is there any harm to taking pleasure from smaller victories and joys?
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Never thought I'd want to finish fourth more than I already did.

I don't really see it as appreciating the victories ... I find it harder to deal with the absence of hope. We're not that far off fourth and yet in that thread about finishing fourth a lot of people will tell anyone who'll listen that it's all over and we won't get fifth ... let alone fourth.

Assuming no takeover ... do we have a 1% chance of winning the league? I don't think we do. 0.1%?

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things and no good thing ever dies."

Hope stays alive in prison ... not in Premier League football. I'd rather deal with the pain of coming close than the numb feeling that we are just making up the numbers with no hope of winning anything (but the odd victory against Man City along the way to feel good about before they buy another one of our players).
 
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