Success?

[johnnydawg68]

Hear me out. I'm not about to tell you it's better not winning things. What I am going to say is a little on the philosophical side though.

So this is coming from my own experience as a life long fan of a college basketball team called the University of Kansas Jayhawks (it's a civil war term - look it up). Anyway, KU (the abbreviation) is one of the most storied programs in the history of the sport. 2nd in all time wins, basically near the top in every measurement both statistically and just from being a fan of the sport. They are expected to compete for the national championship pretty much every year - and they do.

Here's where it gets tricky. When they don't win the title, it's pure disappointment. It's heartbreak. I don't care how many games they won during the year, how many great games they played, it's depressing (the nature of a single elimination tournament to determine the champion is part of that). But basically it's title or disappointment and there's just no getting around it when you're at that level.

So here's my point/question. Being an Evertonian, do we have more things to be potentially grateful for at this point in the club's history? Again, NOT suggesting I don't want to be league/European champions - I do, desperately. But would we appreciate it more than say Man U or Barca or Real Madrid? Man City's expectations have gotten to the point where 2nd in the league and out of the Champions League is considered a failure. I understand that thinking from my other sporting interests, but it's a little sad don't you think?

I mean if we finished 4th, we'd be giving each other reach arounds all day long. 2nd? The Romans wouldn't have had nothing on us.

Is there any harm to taking pleasure from smaller victories and joys?

Discuss.

 

[Allezfan]

I still think of 2nd as a failiure as do many other everton fans.

 

[johnnydawg68]

I still think of 2nd as a failiure as do many other everton fans.

Even considering the obvious disadvantages though? Interesting. Ok. I know that feeling.

 

[johnnydawg68]

So AF brings up another interesting question...is there a dividing line based on age among Blues? Does a younger supporter who isn't old enough to remember the 80's let alone, 70's or 60's or further back, have a different threshold for happiness? Does it depend on if you were alive to see Everton win the title and be considered among the best in Europe?

Any of you younger lads adopt the 1st or nothing attitude? Any of the veterans NOT take that attitude?

 

[Allezfan]

Even considering the obvious disadvantages though? Interesting. Ok. I know that feeling.

People in their early 40s who started watching foootball around 83-84 will have seen us four trophies in four years at that point and have well truly got the idea that if you don't win a trophy it's been a bad year.

I was born a little later but I was brought up in the expectation of everton winning trophies, 95 hit me at a formative age, and I still do think that it's been a bad season if we haven't won anything. I expect europe as a minimum requirement really.

Possibly those expectations are unrealistically high but that's why a lot on here have lost patience with moyes because even though we're being outspent by most of the league we expect trophies at everton, this is the longest drought we've ever had in our history.

I think bigmac who said he'd literally seen nothing but misery as an evertonian. Tell a sunderland fan or a tranmere fan that he'd see what bigmac has and the guy would weep with joy but for evertonians 6th and 5th is misery.

 

[Azzurri]

So AF brings up another interesting question...is there a dividing line based on age among Blues? Does a younger supporter who isn't old enough to remember the 80's let alone, 70's or 60's or further back, have a different threshold for happiness? Does it depend on if you were alive to see Everton win the title and be considered among the best in Europe?

Any of you younger lads adopt the 1st or nothing attitude? Any of the veterans NOT take that attitude?

I wouldn't say first or nothing. I'd be happy with Champions League and see that as success considering our financial constraints, but the stories my Dad tells me about how he'd go to Old Trafford expecting an easy win to piss the league title make me fume when I hear things like Phil Neville's 'fantastic achievement to be top 10'.

 

[Bungle]

Let's get to 40 points and see where it takes us.....

 

[roydo]

Think I know where you are coming from. 95% of being a footie fan is disappointment I guess, but you start following the sport when you are a kid because you just love it. Winning things doesnt come into it. You buy into the whole thing about being a fan, and crushing disappointment is part of the bargain.

I follow Bristol City, (look it up), and a few years ago they were one goal from the PL. Relegation to League One beckons this year, but 15000 people still turn up each week.

Are Celtic fans ecstatic about winning their 53rd SPL? Doubt it.

From an Eberton standpoint, I really think your view is based on when you started watching them as a late teen. If you were a teen in the mid 80s, "WTF no success since then!", if it was the mid 70s, then expectations might be a bit lower.

 

[Allezfan]

I wouldn't say first or nothing. I'd be happy with Champions League and see that as success considering our financial constraints, but the stories my Dad tells me about how he'd go to Old Trafford expecting an easy win to piss the league title make me fume when I hear things like Phil Neville's 'fantastic achievement to be top 10'.

Wait it was you who said "I've witnessed nothing but misery as an Evertonian, so for that reason when we are successful it'll be 50 times better than anything a Man United or Chelsea fan could feel. " not big mac wasn't it?

Sorry mate. But still my point stands, cup finals and european trips and 4th, 5th and 6th places are rightly thought of as misery at a club like ours. We expect trophies.

 

[Titus Bramble]

 

[Carlito]

I think it's important to enjoy victories and achievements, even if they don't result in titles or cups, but I've never understood those who seem to revel in the fact the club don't spend enough money to truly compete.

 

[Brennan]

People in their early 40s who started watching foootball around 83-84 will have seen us four trophies in four years at that point and have well truly got the idea that if you don't win a trophy it's been a bad year.

I was born a little later but I was brought up in the expectation of everton winning trophies, 95 hit me at a formative age, and I still do think that it's been a bad season if we haven't won anything. I expect europe as a minimum requirement really.

Possibly those expectations are unrealistically high but that's why a lot on here have lost patience with moyes because even though we're being outspent by most of the league we expect trophies at everton, this is the longest drought we've ever had in our history.

I think bigmac who said he'd literally seen nothing but misery as an evertonian. Tell a sunderland fan or a tranmere fan that he'd see what bigmac has and the guy would weep with joy but for evertonians 6th and 5th is misery.

15 trophies in 134 years. If people are going to judge any current manager or group of players on previous success they have to use our entire history, not just a short blip in the 80s which does not reflect the norm.

 

[Pabbers]

An Arl fella (Scouse Liverpool fan) got on talksport a few weeks back and said that for "years we were in the shadows of Everton, so I know how special that club is"

That really got me thinking that these years of nothing, has bread a whole generation of Blues seeing nothing, and bieng 2nd in the City.

Football works in Cycles.

 

[johnnydawg68]

Think I know where you are coming from. 95% of being a footie fan is disappointment I guess, but you start following the sport when you are a kid because you just love it. Winning things doesnt come into it. You buy into the whole thing about being a fan, and crushing disappointment is part of the bargain.

This is why I posted this here. I actually posted on a basketball forum after my Jayhawks had a meltdown and blew a huge lead to get eliminated from the title hunt. It's been a long time since I've been that crushed. And I posted the next day that I'm not sure why I even care about sports anymore, because all it brings is disappointment mostly. And then I thought...that's a crap way to look at it. So I guess I'm wondering if lowered expectations make for more chances to enjoy the sport? IDK. It's a question I've been pondering.

 

[Allezfan]

I don't actually think city fans have bigger expectations than everton fans, tbh.

They think (and probably justly so) that they've underachieved this year given their circumstances but I think that's at least partly knowing they're in a deeply fortunate position and want to make the most of it before it crashes rather than an expectation of trophies.