Stature

[Furey1878]

@ssed about stature. We're Everton Football Club and we have stature and probably always will.

I want us to win a trophy because I'll remember it for the rest of my life, it will be on the club's honours list for eternity and despite what people say, I think it takes something special to win any major trophy (cue the claims that the LC is not a major trophy).

Not to mention of course it guarantees Europe, but hopefully we can do that via the league.

Not too cross at Martinez for making the change mind, perhaps he made too many, but fringe players need a chance.

Really I'm more cross with the manner in which Fulham's goals were conceded.

 

[moosed]

I understand we haven't won anything since 1995 and that is now an entire life for an 18 year old lad

How could you possibly forget

 

[Pat's Van]

I guess it comes down to a yes or no - should Everton be playing a first eleven in every cup competition we enter, regardless of what the standard approach to the competition appears to be amongst our peers?

You're actually guessing that it comes down to a different question than that in your original post as it appears that most people are disagreeing with your viewpoint.

 

[Allezfan]

Yet the manager hasn't placed a priority on it and was prepared to play a rotated squad. Is Martinez wrong?

Numerous other clubs have done the same, regardless of recent domestic honours. Are they all wrong?

I guess it comes down to a yes or no - should Everton be playing a first eleven in every cup competition we enter, regardless of what the standard approach to the competition appears to be amongst our peers?

If the answer is "yes", then I guess there's a fundamental difference between your viewpoint and that of many Premier League managers. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to know why Martinez and co. are wrong if you're going to say "of course we should focus on winning the League Cup".

Because a managers job is to keep their chairman happy and chairmen like wins in the league because of prize money and reduced risk of relegation, which is the big risk for a football owner and the one thing that will lead them to press the trigger etc.

As a fan, I don't care that much whether we finish 5th or 16th. I want stuff, trophies and european football, that is unlikely to have much effect on the managers job.

It's why you get the likes of megson and oneill playing shadow sides in the europa and the fa cup. Because there's more money for the club and so more security in finishing up an extra league position.

 

[chicoazul]

Stature? Is this thread trying to be a high brow podcast short on material?

I just want Everton to be boss and that means winning games and cups. Tonight was a [Poor language removed] up. I won't go over the top but its a disgrace for our club that were up to eighteen years without a trophy so we cant keep on spewing this League Cup by putting out radically changed teams, or just by playing like sh*thouses.

We'll move on like but poor form tonight from Everton.

 

[Tubey]

You're actually guessing that it comes down to a different question than that in your original post as it appears that most people are disagreeing with your viewpoint.

Nah it's multi-layered really - I'm wondering if winning a cup would make Everton a big club, more than they feel we are now. But if the answer to that is yes, then the obvious question is whether Everton should be playing a first team in every competition to achieve that cup win.

 

[Tubey]

Stature? Is this thread trying to be a high brow podcast short on material?

I just want Everton to be boss and that means winning games and cups. Tonight was a [Poor language removed] up. I won't go over the top but its a disgrace for our club that were up to eighteen years without a trophy so we cant keep on spewing this League Cup by putting out radically changed teams, or just by playing like sh*thouses.

We'll move on like but poor form tonight from Everton.

Pretty much every other top flight club did the same tonight.

 

[Azzurri]

Nah it's multi-layered really - I'm wondering if winning a cup would make Everton a big club, more than they feel we are now. But if the answer to that is yes, then the obvious question is whether Everton should be playing a first team in every competition to achieve that cup win.

Does it really matter?

IMO you should aim to win trophies because that's the point of competition in football.

There's 18 year olds who haven't seen us win a thing.

 

[chicoazul]

Pretty much every other top flight club did the same tonight.

Sound, but were talking about Everton here and we don't play until Monday so a six day break is plenty to just make a few changes tonight and kick on. We didn't and we paid the price. One more year we can't win the easiest of the cup and one which we haven't won in our history.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I've had a season ticket since 1969.

It is quite clear to me that the premise of your question is absurd. The stature of clubs waxes and wanes over time. Huddersfield were a big club once.

Any club and it's fans (WHATEVER their age) wants to win every competition it is in, otherwise there is no point in entering.

Being blase about defeat is stupid in my opinion.

You've downed him there mate akin to a spitfire pilot over the channel.

 

[Coach]

Nah it's multi-layered really - I'm wondering if winning a cup would make Everton a big club, more than they feel we are now. But if the answer to that is yes, then the obvious question is whether Everton should be playing a first team in every competition to achieve that cup win.

Nah,the question is, should we be bothered about getting beat? Fullstop.

 

[paulbefc]

Yet the manager hasn't placed a priority on it and was prepared to play a rotated squad. Is Martinez wrong?

Numerous other clubs have done the same, regardless of recent domestic honours. Are they all wrong?

I guess it comes down to a yes or no - should Everton be playing a first eleven in every cup competition we enter, regardless of what the standard approach to the competition appears to be amongst our peers?

If the answer is "yes", then I guess there's a fundamental difference between your viewpoint and that of many Premier League managers. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to know why Martinez and co. are wrong if you're going to say "of course we should focus on winning the League Cup".

I'm not talking about how Martinez approached the game tonight or how any other manager approaches cup competitions.

They're not fans. We are. You know that this is a massive club that is about winning trophies. Or at least was and should be again. Seeing as we've not won one in almost two decades, something needs to give and soon. Therefore, no fan with your knowledge of the size of the club in their right mind would fail to be arsed about losing this game tonight.

 

[Tubey]

Does it really matter?

IMO you should aim to win trophies because that's the point of competition in football.

There's 18 year olds who haven't seen us win a thing.

Which is what I said in the initial post. I fully understand that, that's why I'm asking the question.

However, the angst seems to be about Martinez putting out a massively changed side, but Spurs only started three from the side who played their last league game - Walker, Vertonghen and Paulinho. Manchester City made 10 changes with only Fernandinho starting. Yes, I know these are "big" clubs, but you can go through pretty much every team and see the same story.

So if every other team we're in and around are prepared to jeopardise fluidity to rotate the squad, then why is Martinez so wrong to do the same?

 

[Allezfan]

Which is what I said in the initial post. I fully understand that, that's why I'm asking the question.

However, the angst seems to be about Martinez putting out a massively changed side, but Spurs only started three from the side who played their last league game - Walker, Vertonghen and Paulinho. Manchester City made 10 changes with only Fernandinho starting. Yes, I know these are "big" clubs, but you can go through pretty much every team and see the same story.

So if every other team we're in and around are prepared to jeopardise fluidity to rotate the squad, then why is Martinez so wrong to do the same?

Well, I'd mostly say it was because he didn't win.

Spurs and man city thought their team was strong enough to win and it was, ours wasn't.

 

[bignev23]

Teams that treat the League cup as a distraction or a chance to play kids should be those who are in Europe or may foresee being involved in relegation battle, or teams with very weak squads after the starting 11. As we appear to have a bit of depth to our squad I cant see why so many changes were made to our team tonight. Saying that we never played badly and should have got a draw at least.