Yarrgh
Player Valuation: £80m
haha - get yourselves up into top spot then! Anyone but the rs for me. I still think Lampard is the one to topple Klopp into a meltdown.
Spurs
- Thread starter Del-boy
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Bungle
Player Valuation: £90m
I enjoyed the clip of him giving Klopp a mouthful for all to hear when they played them
H.H.
Player Valuation: £10m
Spurs got a 12 month loan for £175m not £200m and including the original loan fee they paid around £32m for LoCelso not £50m.
Spurs are a bit lucky in that we got a massive bonus of many extra millions by getting to the C/L final so the next years results were always going to have at least £30m less income through an average C/L run the season after. Another bonus is, for years Spurs were making annual profits so compared to other clubs who for years had continual annual losses we have a better starting base.
Also players wages compared to income WAS around 50%, some clubs are up in the 100% range.
When fans and events are allowed back into the stadium the big capacity helps to again have a high income.
Downsides.
Because of no gate money (all teams) and less tv money, (all teams again,) wages to income % will rise but will still be ok % wise.
Compared to most other teams we already start every financial year around £20m down because of the stadium loan.
Spurs “only” got into the Europa League this season so next years income will be a good £20 million less.
Who knows what % of fans will come back into stadiums?
All football clubs are going to show massive losses, hard times ahead for many/all.
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considering they just spent near £60m in the summer transfer window I don’t think he’s too bothered. With the vaccine just around the corner then fans will be back before long. Read the facts and figures from the accounts and the amount of matchday income on food and drink etc is quite staggering. When you add in that next year concerts, boxing, NFL will all be back then it’s a pretty good educated guess that spurs will be one of the wealthiest clubs in Europe. Whether they will pump that money back in to the playing squad is another matter but I don’t think spurs have anything to worry about financially.
The BoE loan was purely an opportunistic injection of cash that was too good to turn down at the interest rate offered.
The other 14 clubs in the premier league however may not be in such good knick especially the Burnley’s of the world where their wages to turnover is running close to 100%
roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
Thats the point that folk dont seem to grasp. Even though their ration is high, (I have no idea if it is), their reliance on gate/pie money is miniscule compared to Spurs.
Good post mate.
Re Lo Celso looks like a 15 million loan fee with a 30 million fee on top to buy, so somewhere in the middle. My wider point was that he is obviously a talented a player, and probably has more to show if he's given time (as Ndombele could too). These players could be leading players in the league, it just hasn't happened for them yet.
As for the loan, again apologies figures out. I'm not sure the 175-200m loan amount makes an awful lot of different to the point, which is it gives you an indication of the depth of problems that Spurs will face. You don't go and get a loan of that size, voluntarily if you know turbulence is now down the road,
In terms of the wider problems, for sure. The whole of the game faces problems. It really hasn't sank in yet. I thinkspending was down 15-20% on last summer in the PL (though much more across Europe I believe). Thats a pretty decent sizeable drop, and certainly bulked up by some "swap" deals we've seen which inflated prices (think Jota/Hoover et al) but I was surprised it didn't drop further. I think we will see further drops. I'm not sure how we can't. Babks will stop extending credit to teams fairly quickly.
While all teams will suffer, there's little doubt the "top 6" teams will suffer more. I'm not sure if UEFA have announced anything about prize money being deferred or reduced for EUropean competitions (though it will come). United recently spoke of sponsorship agreements being deferred and in some cases reduced. You tend to defer (ie let them off paying) when you know people won't pay anything. They will then be clawing stuff back.Aside from a worldwide recession thats coming, it's not the same product with no fans. Thats a big part of why they sponsor, both for TV optics, but also tens of thousands in the ground. Sponsorships will be getting terminated or at best negotiated down, particularly longer term ones. Both of these affect the top 6 disproportionately.
Likewise merch spend is going to be hit. Yes we might go back soon is a bit of a fallacy, we will not see a return to Jan 2019 levels of spend for some time yet. Yes I appreciate that they may get back to 80% levels, but getting back to 80% after probably 9 months of operating to maybe 30% levels is really damaging. Again the top 6 clubs aremost effected.
I think a quite punishing recession is coming, and box take up etc is going to go down over the short-medium term. Again Spurs can make the stadium pay for them, but it won't pay as much as was forecast. I don't know how this affects the contigency plan, though it's likely it would have been unforeseen 12 months ago. It's one of them things, when you write that, a global pandemic shutting down the entire world is like in your 0.1% occurences you don't plan for as it's so unlikely.
I've seen our own club have severe money problems. In truth probably less than most of the top 6 will have moving forward. You get through them. For us it was quite severe fiscal austerity. It will probably be the same. But again who buys the players if everyone is selling? Barcelona and Madrid areon their knees too by all accounts. The whole eco system has gone to pot (Barca are talking about revenue being down 70%+). I kind of see the desperate negotiations around the none existent super league as a part a response to this. The whole system that went before is reallyup the wall. If it were business I'd say half the clubs won;t make it through, but we know football doesn't work like that.
I think Spurs will be over 100% wages to turnover next year. I'd be amazed if teams weren't on that ratio. The question is going to be how far it happens, how much debt is having to be taken on to compensate it etc. The BOE is fantastic, so thats great for Spurs but it does have to be paid back, so who knows how it wil be done. Probably through securing funds to other loans. If Lewis undewrites them, it will keep them broadly competitive.
The overall picture is that all teams will suffer, but the top ones will suffer more so the league willbecome more competitive. A fundamental restructure with sharp depreciaton of fees and wages is needed, but football seems to want to operate outside of market forces and spend over 1bn in the summer rather than pre-planning for the brutality to come. You can give an economists prediction on this, but football is a law unto itself, so anything is possible I suppose! Strap in though.
See the post below mate, but essentially the 14 rely more on TV money whereas the top 6 rely more on everything else. TV money has declined, but alot less sharply than all the other aspects, and will probbly continue too.
There is also a train of thought that is Burnley kind of know how to operate in a recession with little money. The top 6 teams don't. This will be very foreign to them. From experience, big business that tend to struggle often have no experience how to put things right. Whether you are big or small, big cut backs become very difficult. Few operate well going backwards.
It's an interesting post ate and appreciate your perspective, I have countered a fair bit of it above if you have a look.
Just to take issue on a couple of points. A vaccine will help but don't think it allows for full fans bank in by May. Secondly, given the recession we are going into, and London being particularly well hit, I do wonder if projections they have made on money coming in will be substantially down. I don't think we just go back to January 2019.
Likewise we have no idea if NFL will be back, or if they are, what the take up will be and what they demand in return. I would imagine margins get squeezed at each end.
All of these things mean, the implied assumptions Spurs were working too, will not be as profitable. When you rely upon a figure of x to meet the borrowings, but you actually only get say 80% of x (which may be an optimistic world view) it can mean the difference between a profit or not. That 20% may be the gap between loan repayments and profit. I don't know the specific business plan or associated contigency plans, but in general thats what it means.
I don't really see Spurs being the wealthiest in Europe. No CL this season will hurt.They still have to maintain repayment commitments on the ground. These don't change even though all of the above do.
The BOE was opportunistic, but you had to show need. It was also very stringent and you had to be able to pay the money back. But yes it looks like the 180m or whatever it was allowed for the spending of the 60m. I remember Levy going on in September about wanting 30k people back in the ground. It seemed ridiculous at the time, but it wouldn't surprise me if he was working to a 50% full stadium (with more expensive seats filled) working to full capacity by December. At present he's had no money in for those months. The question will be how much he needed that money.
As for Burnley, they fce a different set of challenges, but in truth are not affected by a lot of the above in the same way. A drop of 50% in a lot of these tihngs matters a lot less if you generated 10 to if you generate 100. They are most dependant on the TV deal which has held up quite well.
As for Wages to turnover, it's a good indicator, but I suspect most clubs will now be over 100%. The question will be, what will Spurs investors etc make of that and the lenders. Burnleys have become quite used to it. When we had similar at Everton it woud normally frequent sales (famously Duncan Ferguson).
Alan Whittle
Player Valuation: £70m
H.H.
Player Valuation: £10m
As it would also make you happy I would be over the moon with that.
Well of course. But the structural problems facing football clubs will take more than creative accounting. Indeed Levy is talking today of "irreversible damage" being done. I mean even if there is some exaggeration, it is fairly alarming phraseology.
TheBigIguana
Player Valuation: £100m
Arsenal is the easiest fixture on that list I think
Can someone give me a good reason as to why they signed Joe Hart?
Yid4life
Player Valuation: £40m
No.