Should Martinez be sacked? (Post-Stoke poll)

[kenada_blue]

I'd like to think he thinks if we continue our defending the way we are then there's a chance of relegation... and thus is allowed to go out and fix it by signing a decent first XI centre half in January.

Let's face it, Distin and Alcaraz are gone in the summer so that'd just leave the massively underperforming Jagielka, the wonderful Stones and a new fella... plus youngsters.

You'd expect Pienaar to go in the summer too and by now he MUST know that McGeady isn't anywhere near good enough... So if there is a chance of signing a first XI winger in January, be in on loan or permanent, he must go for it.

He'll sure regret it come end of season when we've failed to secure another clean sheet and get relegated in a freak season.

PS. if we go into next season with Jagielka starting games for us it's going to be another long, boring season. Also, that three year deal for Barry isn't looking too wise any more, is it?

A year too generous but he was boss last season.

 

[marty mcfly]

Apparantly the way to solve the issue is just to buy new players. Forget about how they setup...just buy a CB and winger

You do realize Martinez doesn't actually kick a ball in the game. We're losing due to not having the players in certain positions and players who seemingly seem past it. We can't get rid of the manager that achieved our record points total last season by January this season.

 

[1966efc]

Enough already.

20% of supporters are tossers. News???

 

[EverBlue86]

You do realize Martinez doesn't actually kick a ball in the game. We're losing due to not having the players in certain positions and players who seemingly seem past it. We can't get rid of the manager that achieved our record points total last season by January this season.

Not having that mate Howard, Coleman, Jags, Distin, Baines, Barry, Barkley and Lukaku have not ALL turned gash over night.

Distin aside It's down to Martinez and his square pegs in runs holes

 

[nsno-chris]

You do realize Martinez doesn't actually kick a ball in the game. We're losing due to not having the players in certain positions and players who seemingly seem past it. We can't get rid of the manager that achieved our record points total last season by January this season.

Same tream from last year and they're playing like they don't know each other; and its all down to Distin and Jags

And you're right Martinez doesn't kick a ball, but he does set tactics and ensures we have sufficient cover in those positions you refer to.

Thats why he takes a portion of the blame

 

[L4Everton]

But it's a system that worked last season. Isn't it fair that a manager should expect them to perform it adequately this season too? The logic is with the manager on this one.

Tbh, though, I have some sympathy with you: while we have a couple of dogs at CB who have deteriorated dramatically and cant do anything other than suck oxygen on the pitch it might be more profitable to limp into the transfer window by asking them not to do hard stuff like find their own players with 10 yard passes and move forward with the ball at their feet. I mean it's unfair really - how can they be expected to do that?

The pair of them need shoeing down the road right now. If I was Martinez I wouldn't even hang about to take a fee for them. Useless pair of ****s.

Ok, lets keep at it then.

It worked last season - it did in the main, but lets not kid ourselves, it was slowly being found out. Pressurise the players that can pass well and then isolate the ball (through giving space) to the players that struggle to pass even adequately.
[This is not a new phenomenon, sides used to grant Hibbert space to make him the easy out ball, then close up knowing he'd 'shoe it' and 8 times in 10 we'd turn possession over]

But lets keep on the way you see it for a moment, the players that strolled the ball out of defence last season like some sort of Beckenbauer Moore hybrid ought to be able to do the same this season. Well, I have news hot of the press for you, they werent doing it last season, the entire defence was being allowed the freedom to find Barry in acres of space and he'd move the ball on. Barry now has players so far up his backside alls he can taste is Brylcreem.

Persist with this now failing system = blame is on Martinez.

Lets put the rest under the microscope - the players that were in your words 'adequate' last season are now a 'couple of dogs' and they can manage 10 yard passes, to one another and the keeper, they are under orders not to hoof it, the options in midfield are too difficult to find as sides are cutting off the easy options so we are stuck 'titting about at the back'. Then its passed onto Howard and its...andits......Hoof.

And instead of doling out responsibility unto the manager (like you have with players and supporters) you end your response with yet another, another snotty remark.

You da man Davek. If only all our support could be exactly like you.

 

[catcherintherye]

Agree with that mate.

I understand that there'll always be people who split off into factions based on playing style or personality of the manager, but the way some have took leave of their senses and demanded the head of a fine manager like this is unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. If we'd been ropey last season and mid-table this season as we are now, it'd suggest he wasn't the right man for the job. But it hasn't worked out that way and so I sense an agenda driven attack. It's confined to the blow hard tendency at the moment thankfully.

I think the worst thing people can do is be dogmatic. I wasn't convinced of Martinez, but you have to be prepared to give someone a chance. He exceeded my wildest expectations last season. This season was what I was expecting to be honest.

He inherited a very efficient machine from Moyes. Whatever people think of him he was efficient at grinding out results. To go to that next level though always meant moving beyond this, but progress isn't always linear. Sometimes it's 2 steps forward one step back. I think that's the best analogy I can make for Martinez currently. 2 steps forward last year and one step back this season.

Nobody would say we have been good enough this season. But there's nothing worse than collecting evidence to fit a particular viewpoint. Give the man a break.

 

[marty mcfly]

I bet when your car breaks down you replace the tyres first instead of looking at the engine

I've had a hell of a lot more tire failures than engine failures. What's your point?

 

[nsno-chris]

Ok, lets keep at it then.

It worked last season - it did in the main, but lets not kid ourselves, it was slowly being found out. Pressurise the players that can pass well and then isolate the ball (through giving space) to the players that struggle to pass even adequately.
[This is not a new phenomenon, sides used to grant Hibbert space to make him the easy out ball, then close up knowing he'd 'shoe it' and 8 times in 10 we'd turn possession over]

But lets keep on the way you see it for a moment, the players that strolled the ball out of defence last season like some sort of Beckenbauer Moore hybrid ought to be able to do the same this season. Well, I have news hot of the press for you, they werent doing it last season, the entire defence was being allowed the freedom to find Barry in acres of space and he'd move the ball on. Barry now has players so far up his backside alls he can taste is Brylcreem.

Persist with this now failing system = blame is on Martinez.

Lets put the rest under the microscope - the players that were in your words 'adequate' last season are now a 'couple of dogs' and they can manage 10 yard passes, to one another and the keeper, they are under orders not to hoof it, the options in midfield are too difficult to find as sides are cutting off the easy options so we are stuck 'titting about at the back'. Then its passed onto Howard and its...andits......Hoof.

And instead of doling out responsibility unto the manager (like you have with players and supporters) you end your response with yet another, another snotty remark.

You da man Davek. If only all our support could be exactly like you.

Don't talk sense mate, they don't like it. They can't see past the individual errors

Ssssh just blame Distin

 

[nsno-chris]

I've had a hell of a lot more tire failures than engine failures. What's your point?

You're that stupid you've just proved my point, even though it was aimed at Damon

 

[davek]

Ok, lets keep at it then.

It worked last season - it did in the main, but lets not kid ourselves, it was slowly being found out. Pressurise the players that can pass well and then isolate the ball (through giving space) to the players that struggle to pass even adequately.
[This is not a new phenomenon, sides used to grant Hibbert space to make him the easy out ball, then close up knowing he'd 'shoe it' and 8 times in 10 we'd turn possession over]

But lets keep on the way you see it for a moment, the players that strolled the ball out of defence last season like some sort of Beckenbauer Moore hybrid ought to be able to do the same this season. Well, I have news hot of the press for you, they werent doing it last season, the entire defence was being allowed the freedom to find Barry in acres of space and he'd move the ball on. Barry now has players so far up his backside alls he can taste is Brylcreem.

Persist with this now failing system = blame is on Martinez.

Lets put the rest under the microscope - the players that were in your words 'adequate' last season are now a 'couple of dogs' and they can manage 10 yard passes, to one another and the keeper, they are under orders not to hoof it, the options in midfield are too difficult to find as sides are cutting off the easy options so we are stuck 'titting about at the back'. Then its passed onto Howard and its...andits......Hoof.

And instead of doling out responsibility unto the manager (like you have with players and supporters) you end your response with yet another, another snotty remark.

You da man Davek. If only all our support could be exactly like you.

Dont get upset. It's quite simple what I'm saying about your dismissal of 'titting about at the back' as you put it: we need the personnel to carry this out. We need CBs who can step out with the ball in order to make Martinez's system work efficiently. It's not a systemic problem.

As for Barry getting swamped: he's just not playing well. Last season he was being pressured but was in better form and screened the ball a lot more successfully if he ran into traffic.

 

[L4Everton]

Dont get upset. It's quite simple what I'm saying about your dismissal of 'titting about at the back' as you put it: we need the personnel to carry this out. We need CBs who can step out with the ball in order to make Martinez's system work efficiently. It's not a systemic problem.

As for Barry getting swamped: he's just not playing well. Last season he was being pressured but was in better form and screened the ball a lot more successfully if he ran into traffic.

Cor blimey, ok.

Who's choice is it to persist with a system that is not working with the only personel at hand?

 

[davek]

I think the worst thing people can do is be dogmatic. I wasn't convinced of Martinez, but you have to be prepared to give someone a chance. He exceeded my wildest expectations last season. This season was what I was expecting to be honest.

He inherited a very efficient machine from Moyes. Whatever people think of him he was efficient at grinding out results. To go to that next level though always meant moving beyond this, but progress isn't always linear. Sometimes it's 2 steps forward one step back. I think that's the best analogy I can make for Martinez currently. 2 steps forward last year and one step back this season.

Nobody would say we have been good enough this season. But there's nothing worse than collecting evidence to fit a particular viewpoint. Give the man a break.

In a nutshell mate.

The very people accusing Martinez of being inflexible have one string to their bow and keep on playing it until it's reacted to: 'stop working the ball out slowly', as if that get's to the heart of anything.

 

[nsno-chris]

Dont get upset. It's quite simple what I'm saying about your dismissal of 'titting about at the back' as you put it: we need the personnel to carry this out. We need CBs who can step out with the ball in order to make Martinez's system work efficiently. It's not a systemic problem.

As for Barry getting swamped: he's just not playing well. Last season he was being pressured but was in better form and screened the ball a lot more successfully if he ran into traffic.

Wrong.

Last season Barry and McCarthy were given a lot more time on the ball, especially against the lower clubs, to turn and spread play. We moved forward in a bank and the opponents being moved out of space with the pace of our movement.

This year, as soon as that ball is with the CB, the oppostion midfield move right on top of our midfield knowing that the ball is going to Barry and he his swamped with him facing our goal

 

[L4Everton]

In a nutshell mate.

The very people accusing Martinez of being inflexible have one string to their bow and keep on playing it until it's reacted to: 'stop working the ball out slowly', as if that get's to the heart of anything.

Dont get upset. It's quite simple what I'm saying about your dismissal of 'titting about at the back' as you put it: we need the personnel to carry this out. We need CBs who can step out with the ball in order to make Martinez's system work efficiently. It's not a systemic problem.

As for Barry getting swamped: he's just not playing well. Last season he was being pressured but was in better form and screened the ball a lot more successfully if he ran into traffic.

Pride comes before the fall.