Save Money promote youth players?

[Mitch Ward's Minder]

I believe that you can blood youngsters as long as the team around them are good enough to either carry them on occasion or the player themselves are standout performers, ie Rooney. The top teams can afford to play young players more often, as they have the quality all over the pitch to make up for any short comings, unfortunately we don’t. If we aspire to reach higher we need more quality to finish higher in the table to then attract further quality to get into a position when we can afford to play inexperienced players without it impacting too much on results. I’d love to play the youth, but not to the detriment of league position or cup progress.

 

[Mitch Ward's Minder]

Do we have any agreements with other clubs or “satellite” clubs, where we send our players on loan and likewise we get first dibs on their players? I expect not, but this is something the more successful clubs have been doing for a long time, eg Manure and Antwerp. Remember Crewe always having a brilliant academy production line, there must be lower league clubs with a successful output that we could tap into? Considering our youth output to first team has been drab for a while.

 

[Goat]

Do we have any agreements with other clubs or “satellite” clubs, where we send our players on loan and likewise we get first dibs on their players? I expect not, but this is something the more successful clubs have been doing for a long time, eg Manure and Antwerp. Remember Crewe always having a brilliant academy production line, there must be lower league clubs with a successful output that we could tap into? Considering our youth output to first team has been drab for a while.

Rules have changed now.

Can only loan 1 or 2 players to the same club these days.

 

[marcus]

Can you name one young player who we have moved on and had cause to regret it in the last 5years?

The point I am making is that unless we give them a chance we may never know if they were good enough...

 

[Carlito]

It'd be handy if they could at least contribute enough to prevent the squad from being padded out with expensive old crap.

 

[Terrarian]

It'd be handy if they could at least contribute enough to prevent the squad from being padded out with expensive old crap.

I honestly think if some managers had more balls, some of the youth lads can do exactly the same job as a journeyman. We have been bad for this over the years becoming a twilight home. Get the kids on and see what they can offer. A top prospect can't do any worse than a Martina or Niasse can they.

 

[KaiserEFC]

Our academy set up is archaic. Hasn’t changed since about 2006

 

[Eggs]

....i’m sure Brands and Ancelotti would love to bring in more Academy youngsters but they have to be good enough.

its not a matter of simply promoting youngsters, the gulf between U23 and PL is massive and very few are capable of making it. We’ll certainly save a shed load of money but we’d soon go backwards.

 

[Terrarian]

....i’m sure Brands and Ancelotti would love to bring in more Academy youngsters but they have to be good enough.

its not a matter of simply promoting youngsters, the gulf between U23 and PL is massive and very few are capable of making it. We’ll certainly save a shed load of money but we’d soon go backwards.

The gap is massive. Sometimes you have to give them a chance(obviously they must be deserving of that chance). I'd rather try that route than buying journeymen that we then can't shift on. Sink or swim but some never get a chance to paddle.

 

[Eggs]

The gap is massive. Sometimes you have to give them a chance(obviously they must be deserving of that chance). I'd rather try that route than buying journeymen that we then can't shift on. Sink or swim but some never get a chance to paddle.

....points mean so much, managers jobs are on the line. They are not using first team games to trial players, they will promote if a player might be an improvement on what he has.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Our academy set up is archaic. Hasn’t changed since about 2006

This, the so called golden generation came through and out of all of them two lads we bought from Barnsley and Sheffield United are miles better than any of them. We’ve also cleared out loads of the players from the premier league under 21 winning teams. They’re just not good enough and it could be years until we see any changes Brands is making come to fruition out of the academy. Even then sometimes you just have to rely on pure talent. If you’ve got a Wayne Rooney it doesn’t matter how rubbish your academy is they’re going to be coming into the first team at 17. Equally for you haven’t it doesn’t matter how good yours is you can’t create one. Look at La Masai, after all the fanfare about Xavi Iniesta Busquets, they’ve barely churned out a decent player since. Same with United’s academy. Sometimes you just get talent coming through, other times you don’t. I can’t see much in the young players at the moment, no one is standing out.

 

[Terrarian]

....points mean so much, managers jobs are on the line. They are not using first team games to trial players, they will promote if a player might be an improvement on what he has.

Yes, agreed, not saying anyone should get a chance they don't deserve mate. All I am suggesting is using it as a method of squad filling instead of journeymen. I wouldn't want us fielding players not good enough don't get me wrong. They must show it in training, I just think at times managers need to be braver, like you say though it's not my job on the line.

 

[Eggs]

Yes, agreed, not saying anyone should get a chance they don't deserve mate. All I am suggesting is using it as a method of squad filling instead of journeymen. I wouldn't want us fielding players not good enough don't get me wrong. They must show it in training, I just think at times managers need to be braver, like you say though it's not my job on the line.

....to be fair, not many players released by Everton come back and play top flight football.

 

[blueloon]

....i’m sure Brands and Ancelotti would love to bring in more Academy youngsters but they have to be good enough.

its not a matter of simply promoting youngsters, the gulf between U23 and PL is massive and very few are capable of making it. We’ll certainly save a shed load of money but we’d soon go backwards.

Sorry mate I’m weary of Unsworth saying the gap between u18 and U23s is massive, then the gap between U23s and 1st team is massive, and we all nod our heads wisely , accept and repeat it. Of course it is in both cases, the u18s would be slaughtered in the U23s league, put 6 U23s into our 1st team and we’d likely be relegated. But we just accept it like it’s gospel and do nothing about it.

The other night I was amazed when I saw a young 18 year old , Max Thompson, come on for Burnley against City. He left us 6 months ago at 17 because he was only on the sub bench for our u18s. Burnley took him in , played him at u18 , liked him and moved him up to U23s . They forgot to tell him it was a huge step up and he did well , trained with the 1st team and when they had player problems made his PL debut. If he’d stayed with us he’d likely be gone now, I don’t know how he’ll get on at Burnley but sub on our u18 bench to PL debut in six months is remarkable, and says a lot about Burnley’s attitude to overcoming “ it’s a big step up”.

I honestly believe we have a huge disconnect in philosophy at U23s level. Last season Gordon started a few games, didn’t do great , picked up a knock then when he came back spent 4 months on the U23s sub bench. When he started in the last 5 games he was usually the man of the match. People felt he had a poor season, me I believe we wasted 4 months of his development at 17 by playing 6 players ahead of him who are now either no longer with us or on loan but none have Gordon’s ability. Similarly with Ellis Simms, he got 3or 4 games at U23s towards the end of the season , struggled , got dropped and people nodded wisely , oh it’s a big step up . Even at the start of the season he wasn’t picked , others now gone were ahead of him, so probably another 3 or 4 months wasted at a vital time in a talented youngsters career. I actually think our coaches have done and are doing a great job in developing Simms , respect to them for that. But young players learn more from their mistakes while playing and the balance with training needs to be right.

When I think about clubs like Burnley, Sheff Utd, Crystal Palace they all appear to have a better philosophy with youngsters and not worrying about “ its a big step up”. We’re not City with a huge galaxy of stars keeping youngsters out we’re a mid table club with a World Class manager and now a huge disconnect in our youth system. I suspect that Gordon, Simms and even Beni Benigime would have got PL game time this season at the likes of Burnley, Sheff Utd and Palace, and oh , they’re all currently above us in the league.

Its really starting to grip my [Poor language removed] that we keep using “ oh it’s a big step up” as an excuse, of course it’s true but it’s time to sort out the U23s level and make sure the real potential stars are fast tracked in their development from 16 year old onwards .

 

[Nymzee]

Sorry mate I’m weary of Unsworth saying the gap between u18 and U23s is massive, then the gap between U23s and 1st team is massive, and we all nod our heads wisely , accept and repeat it. Of course it is in both cases, the u18s would be slaughtered in the U23s league, put 6 U23s into our 1st team and we’d likely be relegated. But we just accept it like it’s gospel and do nothing about it.

The other night I was amazed when I saw a young 18 year old , Max Thompson, come on for Burnley against City. He left us 6 months ago at 17 because he was only on the sub bench for our u18s. Burnley took him in , played him at u18 , liked him and moved him up to U23s . They forgot to tell him it was a huge step up and he did well , trained with the 1st team and when they had player problems made his PL debut. If he’d stayed with us he’d likely be gone now, I don’t know how he’ll get on at Burnley but sub on our u18 bench to PL debut in six months is remarkable, and says a lot about Burnley’s attitude to overcoming “ it’s a big step up”.

I honestly believe we have a huge disconnect in philosophy at U23s level. Last season Gordon started a few games, didn’t do great , picked up a knock then when he came back spent 4 months on the U23s sub bench. When he started in the last 5 games he was usually the man of the match. People felt he had a poor season, me I believe we wasted 4 months of his development at 17 by playing 6 players ahead of him who are now either no longer with us or on loan but none have Gordon’s ability. Similarly with Ellis Simms, he got 3or 4 games at U23s towards the end of the season , struggled , got dropped and people nodded wisely , oh it’s a big step up . Even at the start of the season he wasn’t picked , others now gone were ahead of him, so probably another 3 or 4 months wasted at a vital time in a talented youngsters career. I actually think our coaches have done and are doing a great job in developing Simms , respect to them for that. But young players learn more from their mistakes while playing and the balance with training needs to be right.

When I think about clubs like Burnley, Sheff Utd, Crystal Palace they all appear to have a better philosophy with youngsters and not worrying about “ its a big step up”. We’re not City with a huge galaxy of stars keeping youngsters out we’re a mid table club with a World Class manager and now a huge disconnect in our youth system. I suspect that Gordon, Simms and even Beni Benigime would have got PL game time this season at the likes of Burnley, Sheff Utd and Palace, and oh , they’re all currently above us in the league.

Its really starting to grip my [Poor language removed] that we keep using “ oh it’s a big step up” as an excuse, of course it’s true but it’s time to sort out the U23s level and make sure the real potential stars are fast tracked in their development from 16 year old onwards .

PL is one of the worst it seems for trusting and promoting youth but maybe the clubs feel there's just more at stake? It's why I prefer watching foreign footie now as they'll play someone whether they're 16 or 36 if they're deemed good enough to make a difference.