Sam Allardyce

[Khalekan]

The state he left Valencia in? He won them their last trophy, they finished 6th and 3rd the 2 seasons after he left, so cant have left them in that much of a mess.

Everton have finished 8th in the season he left.

Hes certainly not as bad as you claim.

@Zatara has a view on his time at Valencia

innit, Zat

 

[Khalekan]

They were 15th in the table when he was sacked hurtling towards relegation and we were in the bottom 3 heading one way when he was fired.

Didn’t the players throw his play book out in the Final and play their own game or sommat?

 

[graeme2911]

Ok mate. I've read your original post. I decided not to respond as @Marius57 feels pretty much the same as I do and summed it up nicely in the above post.

I will add a couple more points to that if I may.

Firstly, as I mentioned in my previous post, after his initial run of games Allardyce had us in 9th position, double digit points clear of relegation and 3 points behind 7th. We were not in a relegation battle at that time but for some reason he continued to fight one that didn't exist. In my opinion, his over negative attitude cost or more points than they won us. Why do you think Allardyce decided to do this?. You say you want to give him a chance to play more adventurous football next season. I would argue that he had the perfect opportunity to do so this season but passed it up. At that time he had practically the whole fan base behind him. Now it's the complete opposite. Why do you think he should be given a second chance.?

The second point relates to his press conferences and post/pre match interviews. I know you've since acknowledged that you don't agree with all he says. But my biggest issue with them is his self righteousness. He picks the team and tactics for every game. Apart from International weeks, he has all week to set them up to play the way he wants them to play. If we win, he invariably takes the credit. If we don't, he will always, and I do mean always, blame somebody else. Yes the players should take their fair share of the blame, and if you go onto their individual threads, you will see that nobody gets away with anything in this forum. But Allardyce has never, not once, held his hands up and said "that was my fault. sorry guys". He is the manager, the guy the book stops with. But notwithstanding this, a big reason why we've failed in so many of the games this season is because of the way he sets up. You mentioned Spurs away as a game where he set up to attack. The other game when he set up to attack was Manchester City at home, where he went with 2 strikers, 2 wingers and Rooney in a midfield 2. After each of those games he came out with some comment about being too attack minded and having to tone it down a bit. One could very easily argue that he purposely threw those games to justify the defensive tactics he normally employs. In fact, the vast majority of the fan base would probably have agreed with him had he gone into those 2 games with his usual defensive formation. How can you be happy with a manager, who cannot accept any blame for his bad decisions AND is quite happy to blame his own players, whether that be collectively or individually as he's done on occasion.?

Thanks for reading.
I don't think the opportunity to play expansively was as apparent as you think, but that is all opinion isn't it? It might have been double figures to the relegation group, but the league this season has been woeful outside the top 6, and everyone has been capable of winning pretty much any game. Only Burnley and Leicester can come out with some credit from it. We could very easily have been sucked back into it. In fact, that slide after his initial good 4 games, could have continued had he carried on trying to let us play a bit more freely.


WRT his comments, I honestly just can't find it in me to care what a manager says pre or post games. I used to years ago, but just stopped bothering to listen to any manager. It doesn't matter. Results and performances are the only things that do. I know performances aren't good. I do feel SA is capable of more though.
His comments about Unsworth telling him that he couldn't cope were shocking, and he should have apologised for that (he shouldn't have said it in the first place), but anything else regarding players, fans etc, I'm not arsed remotely.
Fans need to stop being so precious. And if a player can't take a bit of fair criticism, then get them straight out of our club as they aren't mentally strong enough.




Don't get me wrong, as with players, if something better is available we should take it. I'm 99.9% certain SA would get us 7th next season and close the gap to top 6. I don't think we'd see the completely boring safety first we've had since he took over, but I do think he'd still play with pragmatism over style. Whilst it wouldn't be massively enjoyable, to me it's preferable for one season to put us in a situation were we can then get the type of manager we all want. Personally, I'd take a year or two of stability if it meant we got where we wanted in the few years that followed, rather than keep chopping and changing managers and styles. (I guess that is what the new DoF should give us)

His achievements at bolton are 20 years ago.

Walter Smith won titles with Rangers 20 years ago, lets bring him back...

Oh wait.

WHU a top 6 team?? when did that happen?

I thought he got WHU to the 7th spot a few years ago, but after checking it was a double mistake on my part, as it was actually Bilic. Although I suspect there was a fair amount of Bilic building on SAs good work, much like RM 1st season here after Moyes, where both were unable to sustain it.

 

[Goat]

They were 15th in the table when he was sacked hurtling towards relegation and we were in the bottom 3 heading one way when he was fired.

He still won them their last trophy.

 

[Kinky Koeman]

The dissent from the majority of fans for Koeman was MONTHS too late, and the damage was done, yet Allardyce is being cast as having ruined our season. I was nearly a lone voice in saying Koeman wasn't going to do anything with us.


He hasn't proved to be not up to the task. He's made us the 6th best team in the league since his appointment. Just because it hasn't been to a style that you like, it doesn't mean he has failed.

If you didn't read over 90% of the post then I shouldn't bother discussing anything with you, as you clearly haven't the inclination to discover other viewpoints that don't match yours. Pretty much all of what you stated in your 1st and 3rd paragraphs I covered in my post, but that's your choice to not read anything that doesn't immediately fit your agenda.

I welcome opposing viewpoints - it's the only way people learn. It's why we have political parties and elections every 4 years, and why we have online football forums. If someone provides hard evidence that outweighs what I have witnessed and reflected on, then I will happily change my mind.
Having watched Allardyce teams over the years, I can see that he is capable of providing more than we are currently seeing from this side. I just don't think it is possible, or wise to try and get this side to be something it isn't i.e good.
And as I say, if he doesn't divert from this tactic next season then he should go. I believe that he will offer us a much better side if he is here.

I appreciate your views mern.

I am anti-Sam, I never rated him initially in fact I felt that he was simply going to make us more solid defensively. I’ll add now that I had patience for Koeman, I felt he was the one to turn it around, but as you say we won’t know.

Regarding Samwell, he’s worn me down, the performances have been turgid, that’s not the worst part, his treatment of Lookman was certainly the biggest problem I had - Lookman not getting game time and showing drive to play and being called out was terrible handling of the situation. Tosun then later was shown no mercy with belittling comments. I expect more from a manager than picking 18 players. I have little faith he can make the young lads men and even less faith in him coping with actual problems that arise apart from creating drama.

Is this personal hatred? No. I only want to see us progress, in my poor opinion if he’s not got the tools to help himself turn the fans around then his tenure will descend into madness. x

 

[devo85]

Don't get me wrong, as with players, if something better is available we should take it. I'm 99.9% certain SA would get us 7th next season and close the gap to top 6. I don't think we'd see the completely boring safety first we've had since he took over, but I do think he'd still play with pragmatism over style. Whilst it wouldn't be massively enjoyable, to me it's preferable for one season to put us in a situation were we can then get the type of manager we all want. Personally, I'd take a year or two of stability if it meant we got where we wanted in the few years that followed, rather than keep chopping and changing managers and styles. (I guess that is what the new DoF should give us)

Up until now your arguments, although wrong, were intelligent, constructive, and coherent, this last paragraph has blown all your credibility.

How can you advocate giving him another year while acknowledging we will be in virtually the same situation then. What's the point of that. We would have endured a season of fan unrest and be back in the same situation as we are now. Also, any money spent on players this summer could be wasted as they may not be the type of players the next manager wants.

 

[Frang]

@Zatara has a view on his time at Valencia

innit, Zat

oh no. NOT AGAIN!

 

[helpimonfire]

Has he gone yet?

 

[Khalekan]

oh no. NOT AGAIN!

 

[Jreverton1]

Has he gone yet?

Ask again in May 2019.

 

[graeme2911]

Up until now your arguments, although wrong, were intelligent, constructive, and coherent, this last paragraph has blown all your credibility.

How can you advocate giving him another year while acknowledging we will be in virtually the same situation then. What's the point of that. We would have endured a season of fan unrest and be back in the same situation as we are now. Also, any money spent on players this summer could be wasted as they may not be the type of players the next manager wants.

Stability. Which puts foundations down for future progress.

That isn't me settling for 7th and us being plucky little Everton. It is being realistic and allowing (hoping for) a proper structure to be put in place by the club in a reasonable timeframe. We have to assume Moshiri has plans for us to crack the top 6/4 or why would he be here (unless he is just thinking $$$$). If he just keeps appointing managers to make us finish 7th perennially, then that is not good enough. A year or two of stability will not hurt, and allows for controlled progression.

Unless we get two or three superb players in the summer, which I don't see as likely, the best I think this squad can achieve is 7th and closing the gap to the top 6, rather than be 20 points behind.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

The state he left Valencia in? He won them their last trophy, they finished 6th and 3rd the 2 seasons after he left, so cant have left them in that much of a mess.

Everton have finished 8th in the season he left.

Hes certainly not as bad as you claim.

It surprises me the amount of people who reference the state of Valencia when he left but seem to have no awareness of the state of Valencia when he arrived.
It might moderate their opinions if they chose to research the story before they made judgment.

 

[blueboy1664]

They were 15th in the table when he was sacked hurtling towards relegation and we were in the bottom 3 heading one way when he was fired.

He destroyed Valencia , caused major mutiny in the camp and is hated by the locals... awful manager, I believe he benefited from Poch at Southampton

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Stability. Which puts foundations down for future progress.

That isn't me settling for 7th and us being plucky little Everton. It is being realistic and allowing (hoping for) a proper structure to be put in place by the club in a reasonable timeframe. We have to assume Moshiri has plans for us to crack the top 6/4 or why would he be here (unless he is just thinking $$$$). If he just keeps appointing managers to make us finish 7th perennially, then that is not good enough. A year or two of stability will not hurt, and allows for controlled progression.

Unless we get two or three superb players in the summer, which I don't see as likely, the best I think this squad can achieve is 7th and closing the gap to the top 6, rather than be 20 points behind.

If Allardyce is still here next season and the football continues in the same vein he will be lucky to survive until October. Whatever the reasons, when a manager loses the supporters to the extent he has , he is doomed.
At West Ham they installed Sheringham alongside him to add more attacking zest to his team.
In any case despite his pleas the board have still not publicly backed him, which is probably as good an indication as you will get that his days are numbered and any debate over his abilities will soon be purely academic.

 

[RobC]

Yes the silence and lack of public support for FS from the club has slightly improved my mood/optimism that he is gone at the end of season but his mates in the media are still clinging to his genius and sayimng how we should be more appreciative.