Ronald Koeman discussion

[dannyboy]

For what it's worth i'm only 24 and have seen very little success.
Oddly the period under Moyes to me, were never as bad as they seem now -admittedly I may have became accustomed to Moyes given he was the manager throughout the time I started going the game. But then looking back you see quotes that crop up like 'knife to a gun fight' and realise how negative and beneath ourselves we became. I personally believe the final 2 years under Moyes we played some good football, with the only missing piece a top centre forward -others beg to differ an point to us stagnating which is understandable.

I also thought the period under Martinez -who I wanted as manager when he was at Swansea- has been massively exaggerated as to how bad it became - saying that there is little to know denying his time was up. If you're the slightest bit interested this is my opinion on Martinez - typed when coming back from Wembley:
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-fan-qa-roberto-martinez-11272823

You could say I'm being misty eyed and taking Martinez's performance against the 'top 6' out of content given he has been the only manager since supporting Everton I've seen 'take the game' to them. That being said under Martinez i've left the game early for the first time -away to Liverpool- but also left a game thinking 'wow' (Arsenal away first season) there was just no middle ground, it was either a top performance or a complete shambles. To be fair the players threw both him and the fans under the bus during his 2nd/3rd season.

I agree Martinez tried to instil believe in the team, and I genuinely thing it was bearing some fruition, but we seemingly took one step forwards, two steps back, or in Martinez's case an extra sideways pass before being caught in possession and conceding. Saying that -not that its something to celebrate- but i'm sure in his final season we ha the best away record, be that for x amount of years, or in one of the best in the league, it was oddly the home form that cost us, which to Koeman's credit is something he's fixed by stripping us right back to basics. in my opinion we resemble a Moyes team in a round about way, it's just building from that somehow will be interesting to see.

The Arsenal performance stood out under Martinez. That first half was possibly our best ever in the Premier League era given the opposition. It was amazing to see Everton play like that against a top side away from home. Sadly, I don't think we have seen it since. I agree the players didn't help Martinez but I think that's down to his style of management- amazing when things are going well, not so good being all matey with the players when you're in a rut.

I would say this is a very Moyes team right now, but something about Koeman (who has been there and done it in terms of his playing career) makes me think he can grind out a fantastic season/trophy.

 

[bluewally]

He's played with 3 cb every match so far in league

Only match we've won was against stoke which was a terrible 0-0 at halftime when he took Williams off and switched to standard back 4

Even against city with 10 men we maintained it and invited their midfield on to us

This tactic has failed us

Also DCL has to start every weeek at the minute.

 

[Khalekan]

He's played with 3 cb every match so far in league

Only match we've won was against stoke which was a terrible 0-0 at halftime when he took Williams off and switched to standard back 4

Even against city with 10 men we maintained it and invited their midfield on to us

This tactic has failed us

Also DCL has to start every weeek at the minute.

I agree with your general points there, Wally......but we were actually a goal up at half time versus Stoke

A goal scored in injury time after an atrocious forth five minutes.

 

[dannyboy]

He's played with 3 cb every match so far in league

Only match we've won was against stoke which was a terrible 0-0 at halftime when he took Williams off and switched to standard back 4

Even against city with 10 men we maintained it and invited their midfield on to us

This tactic has failed us

Also DCL has to start every weeek at the minute.

I agree the back three thing needs binning, especially given the fact our full backs just aren't what they were.

Gone are the days we had Coleman and Baines flying up the wings. Baines is a shadow of himself and Holgate is very defensive minded which leaves us short of options.

 

[MACCA75]

Need to play Martina if we are going 5 at the back, play Holgate instead of Williams.

 

[bluewally]

I agree with your general points there, Wally......but we were actually a goal up at half time versus Stoke

A goal scored in injury time after an atrocious forth five minutes.

Ah yes we scored right on half time. My mistake.

A terrible 1-0 then

 

[Zatara]

For what it's worth i'm only 24 and have seen very little success.
Oddly the period under Moyes to me, were never as bad as they seem now -admittedly I may have became accustomed to Moyes given he was the manager throughout the time I started going the game. But then looking back you see quotes that crop up like 'knife to a gun fight' and realise how negative and beneath ourselves we became. I personally believe the final 2 years under Moyes we played some good football, with the only missing piece a top centre forward -others beg to differ an point to us stagnating which is understandable.

I also thought the period under Martinez -who I wanted as manager when he was at Swansea- has been massively exaggerated as to how bad it became - saying that there is little to know denying his time was up. If you're the slightest bit interested this is my opinion on Martinez - typed when coming back from Wembley:
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-fan-qa-roberto-martinez-11272823

You could say I'm being misty eyed and taking Martinez's performance against the 'top 6' out of content given he has been the only manager since supporting Everton I've seen 'take the game' to them. That being said under Martinez i've left the game early for the first time -away to Liverpool- but also left a game thinking 'wow' (Arsenal away first season) there was just no middle ground, it was either a top performance or a complete shambles. To be fair the players threw both him and the fans under the bus during his 2nd/3rd season.

I agree Martinez tried to instil believe in the team, and I genuinely thing it was bearing some fruition, but we seemingly took one step forwards, two steps back, or in Martinez's case an extra sideways pass before being caught in possession and conceding. Saying that -not that its something to celebrate- but i'm sure in his final season we ha the best away record, be that for x amount of years, or in one of the best in the league, it was oddly the home form that cost us, which to Koeman's credit is something he's fixed by stripping us right back to basics. in my opinion we resemble a Moyes team in a round about way, it's just building from that somehow will be interesting to see.

Going off Martinez's first season a hybrid between a strong defensive 4 and fluid pace/energy on the counter suited us, then again it's easier type knowing what happened that season. It just seems we've regressed a little under Koeman on the offensive side of our game and restored the defensive set-up - I may be wrong

Defence is packed with Baines Jagielka and Williams forced to sit deep as they have lost their pace.

We then have the defensive midfielders Schneiderlin and Gana having to sit deep as well to receive the ball from the defenders.

In front we have attacking midfielders where the defensive midfielders should be and then a forward miles ahead of them.

In short, the defence has improved because we sit so deep and play a lot of defensive players.


With a flat back 4 and a left sided centre back with pace who can pass we can play a higher line and start off closer to the opponents goal.

There doesn't seem to be an confidence in the players and he just wants to be ultra negative and hope Klaassen, Sigurdsson or rooney can sneak a goal somehow so we win 1-0.

 

[Zatara]

Need to play Martina if we are going 5 at the back, play Holgate instead of Williams.

Kenny has been on the bench last 2 games....hopefully he can take a positon.

 

[streeky]

Football is a results game. Playng pretty tippytappy football and losing isn't going to get us anywhere. Like it didn't under you know who.

I quite enjoyed chelsea's tippy tappy today.

 

[Joey66]

I quite enjoyed chelsea's tippy tappy today.

Having no opposition tippy tippy worked they had pace we were static - another poor team selection!

 

[Kev The Rat]

Defence is packed with Baines Jagielka and Williams forced to sit deep as they have lost their pace.

We then have the defensive midfielders Schneiderlin and Gana having to sit deep as well to receive the ball from the defenders.

In front we have attacking midfielders where the defensive midfielders should be and then a forward miles ahead of them.

In short, the defence has improved because we sit so deep and play a lot of defensive players.


With a flat back 4 and a left sided centre back with pace who can pass we can play a higher line and start off closer to the opponents goal.

There doesn't seem to be an confidence in the players and he just wants to be ultra negative and hope Klaassen, Sigurdsson or rooney can sneak a goal somehow so we win 1-0.

I agree and that's why he probably targeted those 3 players in particular as they are all capable of moments either via open play or dead ball.

 

[streeky]

Let's pay 50mill for a playmaker and play him as a glorified left back.

 

[Rugby Toffee]

Message to RK .....3 AT THE BACK DOESN'T WORK WITH THE PLAYERS WE HAVE FFS

 

[jceverton]

Defence is packed with Baines Jagielka and Williams forced to sit deep as they have lost their pace.

We then have the defensive midfielders Schneiderlin and Gana having to sit deep as well to receive the ball from the defenders.

In front we have attacking midfielders where the defensive midfielders should be and then a forward miles ahead of them.

In short, the defence has improved because we sit so deep and play a lot of defensive players.


With a flat back 4 and a left sided centre back with pace who can pass we can play a higher line and start off closer to the opponents goal.

There doesn't seem to be an confidence in the players and he just wants to be ultra negative and hope Klaassen, Sigurdsson or rooney can sneak a goal somehow so we win 1-0.

That is the crux of the problem and it seems to be a bizarre way to operate. He's banged on about pressing for the whole of last season yet done nothing to solve the fundamental problem that our defence is too slow, as is the rest of the team.

 

[kenada_blue]

Message to RK .....3 AT THE BACK DOESN'T WORK WITH THE PLAYERS WE HAVE FFS

I don't see why sides are using it a lot nowadays. Is it because Chelsea won the league with it?

To me, you have a strong 5 midfield with pace and width it controls a midfield more than relying on wingbacks