Relegation 23/24 Thread

[Titus Bramble]

Unfortunately if we get 10 points back with no further penalty, then forest will not get a point deduction either....unless the stadium interest cost can be deducted somehow.

If we get 10 points back then it doesn’t matter if Forest get a deduction or not…we're not getting relegated

 

[Bez2k2k]

If we get 10 points back then it doesn’t matter if Forest get a deduction or not…we're not getting relegated

I don’t see this happening. It makes a mockery of their system and they are trying to stop a government regulator. Them finding the whole thing not fit for purpose means they will have to cave and give into a government regulation.

I’m going if Masters published letter, he clearly thinks the process was fair so therefore I can’t see us getting a single point back nevermind the full 10.

 

[Titus Bramble]

I don’t see this happening. It makes a mockery of their system and they are trying to stop a government regulator. Them finding the whole thing not fit for purpose means they will have to cave and give into a government regulation.

I’m going if Masters published letter, he clearly thinks the process was fair so therefore I can’t see us getting a single point back nevermind the full 10.

To be honest mate, every man and his dog can see that the system is a complete nonsense and the Premier League have backed themselves into a corner where no matter what they do next they're going to look foolish.

They've got the Government on their case, and now other Premier League clubs are calling for Master's head based on info I saw on here/Twitter yesterday, so if the 10 points is upheld that pressure/criticism is only going to crank up.

If they give all 10 points back, they're admitting that they've made a massive cock up and calls into question the validity of the 2 more recent charges for both us and Forest.

This is why I think we'll get some points back so they can save face a bit and say something along the lines of 'as you can see we're taking P&S rules very seriously but we have quite rightly taken mitigating factors into account' or some other cock and bull nonsense.

FWIW - if we don't get all points back, I think we (the club and fans) should continue to kick up as much of a stink as possible. Any points deduction as punishment does not fit the crime we committed. Directly impacting a clubs revenue (lost earnings through league placing/possible relegation) as punishment for breaking P&L rules is completely backwards.

 

[Toffe3m4n]

That Sheff Utd win at Luton could end up being pretty significant. Ditto Newcastle at Forest.

 

[d0rk]

Any points deduction as punishment does not fit the crime we committed. Directly impacting a clubs revenue (lost earnings through league placing/possible relegation) as punishment for breaking P&L rules is completely backwards

Surely a purely financial penalty has the same impact though? Or are you suggesting another form of punishment (and what)?

 

[Titus Bramble]

Surely a purely financial penalty has the same impact though? Or are you suggesting another form of punishment (and what)?

I'm certainly no expert, but why not a suspended fine (the size of which is entirely dependent on how much you've overspent) pending your next set of accounts. If you're not getting your house in order by the next set of accounts (maybe the 'allowed' losses the following year is agreed upon between club and Premier League) then the fine hits. A further, larger fine is threatened for the following year, again, pending sorting your finances out.

I would also argue that any fine paid should be deductible from your next set of accounts to prevent entering an endless cycle. That way, it's the owner(s) who are being punished for their poor handling of the club, rather than the fans/staff of the club.

 

[Blue Willy]

Because they want to come down hard on someone (thats not a scum six) and show how serious they are!!!!

 

[Bez2k2k]

To be honest mate, every man and his dog can see that the system is a complete nonsense and the Premier League have backed themselves into a corner where no matter what they do next they're going to look foolish.

They've got the Government on their case, and now other Premier League clubs are calling for Master's head based on info I saw on here/Twitter yesterday, so if the 10 points is upheld that pressure/criticism is only going to crank up.

If they give all 10 points back, they're admitting that they've made a massive cock up and calls into question the validity of the 2 more recent charges for both us and Forest.

This is why I think we'll get some points back so they can save face a bit and say something along the lines of 'as you can see we're taking P&S rules very seriously but we have quite rightly taken mitigating factors into account' or some other cock and bull nonsense.

FWIW - if we don't get all points back, I think we (the club and fans) should continue to kick up as much of a stink as possible. Any points deduction as punishment does not fit the crime we committed. Directly impacting a clubs revenue (lost earnings through league placing/possible relegation) as punishment for breaking P&L rules is completely backwards.

Oh yes I am all for points back and a cancellation of the deduction I just personally don’t see it happening. I am basing this on the whole experience of what I believe has been a clear ‘let’s get them out of the league’ since the war in Ukraine.

There’s been too many none penalties, too many decisions going against us, too many last minute escapes, Palace/Bournmouth, this season they have hit us early with the deduction to get us down and within 4 games we had go all the points back, then low and behold we get hit with another charge. I do believe it’s corrupt and I do believe it stinks but I have almost resigned myself to the fact that it won’t stop until we are not the Premier Leagues problem anymore.

 

[Bez2k2k]

I'm certainly no expert, but why not a suspended fine (the size of which is entirely dependent on how much you've overspent) pending your next set of accounts. If you're not getting your house in order by the next set of accounts (maybe the 'allowed' losses the following year is agreed upon between club and Premier League) then the fine hits. A further, larger fine is threatened for the following year, again, pending sorting your finances out.

I would also argue that any fine paid should be deductible from your next set of accounts to prevent entering an endless cycle. That way, it's the owner(s) who are being punished for their poor handling of the club, rather than the fans/staff of the club.

That’s actually so far one of the best things I’ve read with how a punishment should be handled. I’ve thought long and hard about it and I’ve spoke to others who have said ‘there’s no justice in a fine’, ‘everyone would just do it’ etc etc. I don’t believe in points deductions, I think it’s a weird way to punish someone, I also think it doesn’t just punish the owner(s), it punishes everyone from a fan watching/going, to a person pouring you a cup of tea at half time, their jobs could go if we get relegated and attendances drop etc.

But as you put it. If you overspend one year by a certain amount then the next year your get that less to spend therefore you can’t overspend again. Then obviously a rule would have to be written with certain punishments but it would defo allow for clubs to essentially break even or become plus with transfer activity.

Good idea.

 

[matty1878]

The fanbase have had him sacked before. Seems like they're gearing up for it again.

idiots

 

[DanB90]

I don’t see this happening. It makes a mockery of their system and they are trying to stop a government regulator. Them finding the whole thing not fit for purpose means they will have to cave and give into a government regulation.

I’m going if Masters published letter, he clearly thinks the process was fair so therefore I can’t see us getting a single point back nevermind the full 10.

They’ve already done that themselves.

 

[Bez2k2k]

They’ve already done that themselves.

Yes.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

If we get points deduction and relegation and City win the league its surely time to give up on the premier league as a fair contest. I dont think even the biggets blues hater around could see that as just. Wish the [Poor language removed] at the top and Spurs would [Poor language removed] off and form their own league and let the premier league get back to being an actual fair fight

 

[mikel_88]

Unfortunately if we get 10 points back with no further penalty, then forest will not get a point deduction either....unless the stadium interest cost can be deducted somehow.

Not really we have been done for different charges; if they have over spent on players they will have a differnt case

 

[efcfanwirral]

I'm certainly no expert, but why not a suspended fine (the size of which is entirely dependent on how much you've overspent) pending your next set of accounts. If you're not getting your house in order by the next set of accounts (maybe the 'allowed' losses the following year is agreed upon between club and Premier League) then the fine hits. A further, larger fine is threatened for the following year, again, pending sorting your finances out.

I would also argue that any fine paid should be deductible from your next set of accounts to prevent entering an endless cycle. That way, it's the owner(s) who are being punished for their poor handling of the club, rather than the fans/staff of the club.

And the legal costs fighting any of this should be deductible too.

Not really we have been done for different charges; if they have over spent on players they will have a differnt case

In reality its the same charge. I think the club have been very clever in putting the breach onto one £20m block around the stadium loan to generate headlines about us being punished for building a stadium and get the fans focused on that, but really a dispute over £20m is only a problem if you've overspent by the rest of the amount. Could easily argue that we could've sold another couple of players or bought less (as this is the second charge we're talking about, we did sign players in that time period)

I think Forest's charge is ridiculous, are we just expecting all the promoted teams to do a Burnley and Sheffield United each year and get ever lower points totals? Only one way that's going and that's to do away with relegation