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johnnydawg68
Chairperson, People's Front of Saint Domingo
Ok, now I know you've lost all sense of reality if you think we're:
A) Getting relegated because there aren't good rail links to Goodison
B) Losing fans to Tranmere Rovers
C) Losing fans to Wigan, who ARE getting relegated this year because you can take the train to the DW.
It's pretty clear you love trains more than Everton. I like trains. But not more than Everton.
Inner-city
Player Valuation: £2.5m
Pay attention at the back!!! Get the points.
Firstly I love the city of Liverpool then Everton. It just happens Liverpool has the best rapid-transit rail system outside London, which can be easily expanded using disused tunnels and lines. Using this metro for the benefit of the city and Everton makes only common sense.
Everton will get relegated if they do not do all to solidify its fanbase. You do that these days by ensuring the fans get to a top stadium comfortably and quickly with minimum fuss.
What I wrote can become very real. Everton staying at GP will ensure the club cannot compete at the top. Then relegation becomes a possibility when the current manager goes. Tranmere, are a club where 1/3 of EFCs season ticket holders are, besides the walk-ups. Tranmere got into the PL playoffs. If EFC are relegated and they go the other way. Be prepared for the new young fans on the Wirral to support Rovers. In a generation a whole hard-core of fans may disappear.
You opinion on the performance of Wigan is meaningless. The fact is that young support in Central Lancashire that would have gone to EFC has now gone to Wigan. It was not reflected in the gates because the ground is too small anyhow.
Rapid-transit & EFC
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Inner-city
Player Valuation: £2.5m
Stand alone. Financially it makes sense to have a 75-80,000 seater joint stadium. That is an emotional matter. The next best thing is have them both on the same rapid-transit rail line, each with a high throughput station, which also gives fast connection to the city centre, mainline rail stations and most of the Merseyside fanbase catchment area.. The Outer Loop Line is ideal. If both are on the line with many others benefiting, then the Dept for transport are likely to find funds.
Rapid-transit & EFC
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Inner-city
Player Valuation: £2.5m
Yes, you can. He never paid attention then posted.
Inner-city
Player Valuation: £2.5m
Fast rail must be the prime point in site selection for Everton FC and Liverpool FC stadia.
A good stadium site would be in the fields on the other side of Finch Farm, EFC's training ground, between Finch Farm and the A5300 junction which runs onto the M57 and the M62. The Liverpool-Manchester (Warrington, Widnes, etc) line is adjacent and a high throughput station can be built witha Merseyrail line run in. South Parkway is just a few stops back down the line. If the mothballed outer Loop Line (West Derby, Childwall, Aintree, Walton) is recommissioned access is superb. The line can continue to Hale village and the airport, killing many birds with one stone.
ignore the circle. The large pink square is ideal for a stadium. The smaller pink square is EFC's training ground.
The Finch Farm site is good indeed.
This would be just outside the city boundary, as is Finch Farm, but ideal. Who cares if the club is just inside or outside the city limits. Most don't care a hoot. I do not.
One big EFC complex with great rapid-transit transport links.
A good stadium site would be in the fields on the other side of Finch Farm, EFC's training ground, between Finch Farm and the A5300 junction which runs onto the M57 and the M62. The Liverpool-Manchester (Warrington, Widnes, etc) line is adjacent and a high throughput station can be built witha Merseyrail line run in. South Parkway is just a few stops back down the line. If the mothballed outer Loop Line (West Derby, Childwall, Aintree, Walton) is recommissioned access is superb. The line can continue to Hale village and the airport, killing many birds with one stone.
ignore the circle. The large pink square is ideal for a stadium. The smaller pink square is EFC's training ground.
The Finch Farm site is good indeed.
- The Outer Loop line is mothballed, complete with bridges. It runs though Gateacre, Childwall, West Derby, etc, and right onto Halewood.
- The airport needs a rail station. The line will run past Finch Farm. EFC, Peel, and other public agencies can all contribute.
- Tons of space to expand and for car parks, which can be used by Liverpool FC in park and ride to their stadium, which ideally will be on the recommissioned Outer Loop Line, in light blue.
This would be just outside the city boundary, as is Finch Farm, but ideal. Who cares if the club is just inside or outside the city limits. Most don't care a hoot. I do not.
One big EFC complex with great rapid-transit transport links.
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Inner-city
Player Valuation: £2.5m
Muggins
Player Valuation: £60m
It is done for you.All bodies have been, or will be informed.
Excellent work old chap.
johnnydawg68
Chairperson, People's Front of Saint Domingo
"Firstly I love the city of Liverpool then Everton. It just happens Liverpool has the best rapid-transit rail system outside London, which can be easily expanded using disused tunnels and lines. Using this metro for the benefit of the city and Everton makes only common sense".
Ok, well my priority is Everton. So whatever is best for club is what I'm for. Pretty simple position.
"Everton will get relegated if they do not do all to solidify its fanbase. You do that these days by ensuring the fans get to a top stadium comfortably and quickly with minimum fuss".
Everton aren't getting relegated my friend. Why do you continue with this tripe? You don't need to take an argument to an illogical conclusion. I'm all for Mass Transit. Trains are good. Why are trying to sow fear?
"What I wrote can become very real. Everton staying at GP will ensure the club cannot compete at the top. Then relegation becomes a possibility when the current manager goes. Tranmere, are a club where 1/3 of EFCs season ticket holders are, besides the walk-ups. Tranmere got into the PL playoffs. If EFC are relegated and they go the other way. Be prepared for the new young fans on the Wirral to support Rovers. In a generation a whole hard-core of fans may disappear.
You opinion on the performance of Wigan is meaningless. The fact is that young support in Central Lancashire that would have gone to EFC has now gone to Wigan. It was not reflected in the gates because the ground is too small anyhow".
Really? Wigan play in front of full houses every week, because young fans can get to the DW by train?
DW Capacity - 25,138
2009/2010 attendance - 18,006. LAST in the PL. Where are all these potential Everton fans then son?
Congratulations, you've managed to draw me into an argument that I would normally like to agree with you (every city should develop a commuter rail system as much as possible) and managed to make me think you're a complete weapon by using ridiculous arguments to make your point.
Oh, and there is NO WAY Everton are filling a 75-80k stadium. So if we played in one, it would be AT BEST 1/3 empty, sucking all atmosphere out of the stadium. And because fans would know there will always be tickets available, you complete take away the incentive to lock in season tickets for many fans. Build the stadium at a capacity slightly less than what you think you can fill to create an incentive for fans to buy match tickets early and often. Build it too big and you will destroy matchday atmosphere and end of with half filled stadiums like in Sunderland.
Ok, well my priority is Everton. So whatever is best for club is what I'm for. Pretty simple position.
"Everton will get relegated if they do not do all to solidify its fanbase. You do that these days by ensuring the fans get to a top stadium comfortably and quickly with minimum fuss".
Everton aren't getting relegated my friend. Why do you continue with this tripe? You don't need to take an argument to an illogical conclusion. I'm all for Mass Transit. Trains are good. Why are trying to sow fear?
"What I wrote can become very real. Everton staying at GP will ensure the club cannot compete at the top. Then relegation becomes a possibility when the current manager goes. Tranmere, are a club where 1/3 of EFCs season ticket holders are, besides the walk-ups. Tranmere got into the PL playoffs. If EFC are relegated and they go the other way. Be prepared for the new young fans on the Wirral to support Rovers. In a generation a whole hard-core of fans may disappear.
You opinion on the performance of Wigan is meaningless. The fact is that young support in Central Lancashire that would have gone to EFC has now gone to Wigan. It was not reflected in the gates because the ground is too small anyhow".
Really? Wigan play in front of full houses every week, because young fans can get to the DW by train?
DW Capacity - 25,138
2009/2010 attendance - 18,006. LAST in the PL. Where are all these potential Everton fans then son?
Congratulations, you've managed to draw me into an argument that I would normally like to agree with you (every city should develop a commuter rail system as much as possible) and managed to make me think you're a complete weapon by using ridiculous arguments to make your point.
Oh, and there is NO WAY Everton are filling a 75-80k stadium. So if we played in one, it would be AT BEST 1/3 empty, sucking all atmosphere out of the stadium. And because fans would know there will always be tickets available, you complete take away the incentive to lock in season tickets for many fans. Build the stadium at a capacity slightly less than what you think you can fill to create an incentive for fans to buy match tickets early and often. Build it too big and you will destroy matchday atmosphere and end of with half filled stadiums like in Sunderland.
Inner-city
Player Valuation: £2.5m
Everton have been relegated twice before. Big Newcastle have just been down for a year. Never say never. The likelihood of being relegated is increased by having poor revenues - staying at Goodison Park. Money buys success. You know that I'm sure.
Wigan do not a have an established large fanbase. With greater PL exposure that fanbase will increase. Everton are a large established big city club. Elstone states that 90,000 Evertonians watch Everton at GP each year. These vary from season ticket holders to the two match a year walk-ups. That fanbase must be solidified and encouraged to attend more games per year. The stadium and rapid-transit will do that - as Arsenal found out.
You agree that each city should have rapid transit but now do not think so because you can't see a simple point? How strange.
Arsenal fans said that. Arsenal were a similar sized club to EFC. The same sized and similar type of ground, same sized fanbase, the same revenues, similar league performance, etc. They now fill a 60,000 seater and estimate they could fill 95% on average a 75,000 seater.
The revenues Sunderland take in are far superior to when at the old crock, Roker Park. Sunderland's attendances are running at 78% out of a total capacity of 49,000
http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/attend.html
Sunderland in the Prem:
2002-2003 R 39698
2005-2006 R 33904
2007-2008 43344
2008-2009 40168
2009-2010 40355
39,493.8 Average of 78% full since they had a small rapid-transit rail station built near the stadium. In 2008 they were running at over 88% of capacity in a town/small city of only 177,739. That is 24.38% of the population attended the games on 2008 - nearly 1 in 4 of all men women and children. An amazing success!!!! You have to get it into perspective. Wirral BC is over 300,000 to give a guide.
And this is also two of the seasons Sunderland were relegated playing appallingly with managerial problems - the R above. Yet the still manged amazing attendances.
You have to comparer like with like. Everton are equivalent to Arsenal with catchment area of 1.5 million in Merseyside and well over 6.5 million in the immediate Lancashire and Cheshire.
Prof Tom Cannon with interesting facts about the Everton fanbase.
- Everton are estimated to have 500,000 supporters in the UK (those who claim to be Everton fans).
- Everton are estimated to have another 250,000 worldwide.
- Regular match goers (3 games or more) number between 75,000 and 100,000, Elstone says 90,000
- Everton have one of the youngest fanbases in the country
- A large percentage of graduates.
- The fanbase was one of the most geographically diverse in the UK.
I am not scaremongering as you seem to think - I am being realistic.
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Inner-city
Player Valuation: £2.5m
Professor Proudlove, an ex professor of Transport Studies at Liverpool
University is very keen on the idea. He flattering writes about the lack of inventive ideas in the city, "there appear to be only yourself and Peel doing anything constructive".
The Dept for Transport is aware of the web site and are taking note.
These are influential people, and all is needed is the other leading bodies to see the great easily obtained benefits to all of Greater Liverpool. That is being worked on. If no one tries it will never happen.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/Rapid-Transit-Football.html
You seriously love trains you lad.
Inner-city
Player Valuation: £2.5m
I don't really - I don't know one train class from another, I believe Meseyrail has class 408s whatever that is. But I know what trains can do. It is easier to get the points being forwarded than think it is some train enthusiast posting who wants trains for the sake of it.
I do want Liverpool to have comprehensive metro, like Paris and London, and close down the big awful roads like the Strand and stop the road building which rips out districts of the likes of Edge Lane.
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