Promoting youth to the first team

[sageyefc]

You're being silly m8 x

Im not mate, he handled youth not the best. He'd play them out of position and only for the odd few minutes before they disappeared for ages if they didnt perform, defenders getting a chance under him was none exsistant under him until he was pretty much forced to use duffy because of injuries, then dropped him for no reason.

And from our coaches own mouths he held no interest in the youth teams

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

No, hes a myth when it comes to youth

No one is disputing that Moyes didn't start a lot of youngsters

The problem with him was that he'd start a youngster, they'd do well and then he'd drop them regardless of form

Barkley being dropped for the Sunderland game after playing so well against Arsenal in 12/13 is a good example

Duffy never getting a sniff in the first team again after coming in and holding his own just fine was another

Even Rodwell got dropped in strange situations when it seemed he should have played

That's what annoyed me so much about Moyes

Countless players would get a game, do nothing wrong but then still get dropped

At least when it came to Stones, Martinez rewarded his good performances with more starts

That being said, Martinez also dropped Robles for literally no reason once Howard came back, so neither manager is guiltless in that regard

 

[Saint Domingo]

No one is disputing that Moyes didn't start a lot of youngsters

The problem with him was that he'd start a youngster, they'd do well and then he'd drop them regardless of form

Barkley being dropped for the Sunderland game after playing so well against Arsenal in 12/13 is a good example

Duffy never getting a sniff in the first team again after coming in and holding his own just fine was another

Even Rodwell got dropped in strange situations when it seemed he should have played

That's what annoyed me so much about Moyes

Countless players would get a game, do nothing wrong but then still get dropped

At least when it came to Stones, Martinez rewarded his good performances with more starts

That being said, Martinez also dropped Robles for literally no reason once Howard came back, so neither manager is guiltless in that regard

Stones only got in the team, and stayed in the team because of injuries to jags and then Distin. At the start of last season when Distin and Jags were fit he pushed Stones to RB out of position. It then took an injury to Distin for Stones to come in at CB.

The only two youngsters Nsrtinez has put in the first team are Stones and Barkley. Both are top class youngsters the likes of which Moyes only had with Rooney and Rodwell both of whom he played regularly. Frankly Moyes gave a chance to too many young players who weren't good enough. Even now Garbutt is only promising, he's nowhere near the first 11 unless injuries occur to Baines and Oviedo. Where was Ledson last season when Barry was miles off the pace? Not being used because he's probably not ready. Some fans were ridiculous with Moyes about youth and they are now being ridiculous with Martinez. They expect a player each year coming through and nailing down a spot in the first 11. Doesn't happen at any club in the world. We get more than most and there looks to be maybe a few decent players coming through but Martinez, like Moyes can't pretend talent isotherm if it isn't. Some people will claim Barkley still isn't ready for a spot in the first 11 yet Moyes should have played him week in and week out four years ago after his triple leg break -ok.

 

[Charles Hawtrey]

Stones only got in the team, and stayed in the team because of injuries to jags and then Distin. At the start of last season when Distin and Jags were fit he pushed Stones to RB out of position. It then took an injury to Distin for Stones to come in at CB.

The only two youngsters Nsrtinez has put in the first team are Stones and Barkley. Both are top class youngsters the likes of which Moyes only had with Rooney and Rodwell both of whom he played regularly. Frankly Moyes gave a chance to too many young players who weren't good enough. Even now Garbutt is only promising, he's nowhere near the first 11 unless injuries occur to Baines and Oviedo. Where was Ledson last season when Barry was miles off the pace? Not being used because he's probably not ready. Some fans were ridiculous with Moyes about youth and they are now being ridiculous with Martinez. They expect a player each year coming through and nailing down a spot in the first 11. Doesn't happen at any club in the world. We get more than most and there looks to be maybe a few decent players coming through but Martinez, like Moyes can't pretend talent isotherm if it isn't. Some people will claim Barkley still isn't ready for a spot in the first 11 yet Moyes should have played him week in and week out four years ago after his triple leg break -ok.

Junior - Leeds

 

[Saint Domingo]

Junior - Leeds

Have we seen him since? City didn't think he was good enough, Moyes took a gamble, have him a chance which he wasted, then Martinez obviously hasn't rated him. Another to join Baxter, Vaughan, Anichebe, Duffy, Forshaw, Mark Hughes, Bidwell, Akpan, that Moyes gave first team starts to but just were not good enough for Everton.

 

[Fresh Prince of Belle Val]

Have we seen him since? City didn't think he was good enough, Moyes took a gamble, have him a chance which he wasted, then Martinez obviously hasn't rated him. Another to join Baxter, Vaughan, Anichebe, Duffy, Forshaw, Mark Hughes, Bidwell, Akpan, that Moyes gave first team starts to but just were not good enough for Everton.

What about Mustafi?

 

[MartSlinger]

Will never forget when Barkley was brilliant at the Emirates against Arsenal in that 0-0 for Moyes to drop him days later for Osman against Sunderland. Summed Moyes us that.

 

[desertfox]

Have we seen him since? City didn't think he was good enough, Moyes took a gamble, have him a chance which he wasted, then Martinez obviously hasn't rated him. Another to join Baxter, Vaughan, Anichebe, Duffy, Forshaw, Mark Hughes, Bidwell, Akpan, that Moyes gave first team starts to but just were not good enough for Everton.

It isn't just that young players are 'not good enough', though. Many of these you mention, are good enough to play for the first team. It is simply that at the time they came to 'market', there was a perfectly good, risk-free player who was playing in 'their' position. Like now, Garbutt is going to struggle to play 1st team because of Baines (and arguably Oviedo). But it only takes one (or at most two) bad injuries and he will get the chance. They then just need to impress to the point that the gaffer can't justify dropping them. OR the player ahead of them enters a gash period. So, basically it is right place, right time. If a player has been around the first team for a while, it doesn't make sense for them to stay for years awaiting the opportunity. It's a short career and everyone knows it. They need, as players, to move on and displace someone who they CLEARLY are better than -which means in another team.

 

[Saint Domingo]

What about Mustafi?

The one that got away? What about Pogba? Mustafi was not tall enough for the prem, hardly anyone predicted his meteoric rise, sometimes you lose one. Moyes mostly got it right with players though.

 

[BoysInBlue]

Moyes used to always give some kids a run out in pre-season, its nothing new.

Lets wait and see if any of these young uns come through before we can "compare".

Galloway, Browning and Garbutt all featured several times in league games last season.

Martinez gives Youth a chance more than Martinez. Barkley is testament to that.

 

[Stephenlloyd]

Will never forget when Barkley was brilliant at the Emirates against Arsenal in that 0-0 for Moyes to drop him days later for Osman against Sunderland. Summed Moyes us that.

Yes that pissed me off too
To be honest I wasn't surprised osman came back in for that game as we still had a slim chance of top 4 and moyes liked his experienced players

But after loosing that game and top 4 had gone, we played Fulham the week after and Osman kept his place

I'm sure Barkley didn't get even a second on the pitch from then till the end of the season even though with 3 games to go we didn't have much to play for and our possition in the table was virtually set

 

[ftk43]

Galloway, Browning and Garbutt all featured several times in league games last season.

Martinez gives Youth a chance more than Martinez. Barkley is testament to that.

Moyes gave game time to a lot of youngsters, here and there, mostly because there was nobody else to play, but Martinez does exactly the same, Browning only appeared twice, both times from the bench, Hibbert was selected ahead of him. If Seamie would have been injury-free, we wouldn't see Browning once.
Garbutt only played when both Baines and Oviedo were unavailable. And even then RM didn't trust Garbutt to start in the PL, and played Hibbert at LB.
Galloway only appeared at the end of the season, when Baines and Oviedo were unavailable once again, and nobody knew if Garbutt's going to be our player this upcoming season.
Even Stones only found his way into our first 11 because of injuries too.

Barkley is not a testament to Roberto's open-mindedness regarding playing youngsters, he's the exception, just like Rooney was for Moyes.

We have to wait and see if Martinez actually gives youth more chance.