Progress

[hktoffee]

Lol.

We have a manager you support who has us on the mammoth total of 58 points so far and dumped us out of both cups early, but the manager who got us a club PL points record and to the letter stages of three cup completions in the short time he was here was "terrible".

Your bitterness needs looking at mate. It must be tearing you apart.

Nonsense. Unlike you are having a go at Koeman on a daily basis.

Martinez got what he deserved aka the sacking. You are supporting a club run by the Mosh who sacked your hero. Absolutely deluding yourselves for a fraud in RM. 72 points xyz it was 5th. Why didn't you say a thing about 11th and 13th? Don't you wipe it out and pretend that never happened? Only small-time individual will wet himself because of cup runs in. Beating League 1 side in the fourth round (and losing in your holy grail semi finals) was great was it?

 

[davek]

Nonsense. Unlike you are having a go at Koeman on a daily basis.

Martinez got what he deserved aka the sacking. You are supporting a club run by the Mosh who sacked your hero. Absolutely deluding yourselves for a fraud in RM. 72 points xyz it was 5th. Why didn't you say a thing about 11th and 13th? Don't you wipe it out and pretend that never happened? Only small-time individual will wet himself because of cup runs in. Beating League 1 side in the fourth round (and losing in your holy grail semi finals) was great was it?

Ok mate, you know best.

Anyway, the thread is about this season and progress (lack of it), so let's spare others of this tedium in here at least?

 

[bignev23]

Radio Mersieyside reporter yesterday post game: "and you can now kick on next season and think about top four"?
The Dutchman: "yes but maybe top four is a little unrealistic"

Nothing fake news about that.

Well If he did I don't think he's saying he's not going to try. I'd agree with him anyway TBH I think anyone expecting a top 4 finish next season is most likely going to end up disappointed I think we both know that and I suspect it would be a view that most people in football would agree with. We'd have to improve shed loads for that, it'll be step to far IMO bar a freak season. It'll take a few seasons at least of spending some actual cash and spending it wisely for that. I'd be happy with a similar league placing preferably higher of course but also attempting to win an actual trophy as well and not exiting the cups early doors would be nice.

 

[davek]

Well If he did I don't think he's saying he's not going to try. I'd agree with him anyway TBH I think anyone expecting a top 4 finish next season is most likely going to end up disappointed I think we both know that and I suspect it would be a view that most people in football would agree with. We'd have to improve shed loads for that, it'll be step to far IMO bar a freak season. It'll take a few seasons at least of spending some actual cash and spending it wisely for that. I'd be happy with a similar league placing preferably higher of course but also attempting to win an actual trophy as well and not exiting the cups early doors would be nice.

I disagree completely and hope that everyone else would too.

Since when has the notion that we can't put up a realistic fight for a top four spot become acceptable? Certainly not before this season.

It's difficult, yes. But no manager can at the end of one season write off the possibility that we can nose in their next season. What sort of message does that send out to players who need little encouragement to knock off? A very poor one.

 

[tommye]

2 steps forward, one step back.
Summer transfer window is massive and will set out our intentions for the next 3/5 seasons. Go big early and reap the rewards or dawdle until early August and remain stagnant. Over to you Mosh.

 

[bicycleheader]

I disagree completely and hope that everyone else would too.

Since when has the notion that we can't put up a realistic fight for a top four spot become acceptable? Certainly not before this season.

It's difficult, yes. But no manager can at the end of one season write off the possibility that we can nose in their next season. What sort of message does that send out to players who need little encouragement to knock off? A very poor one.

Id agree. if he is specifically talking about next seasons possibilities/expectations then I'd much prefer our manager spoke more positively whatever he might think.

call it tough but that we are going to try or whatever turn of phrase, but saying unrealistic doesnt come across very well at all.

 

[balggy]

We finished 11th last season and didn't qualify for Europe. We finished 15 points off 7th place West Ham.

This season we are 7th and have qualified for Europe. We are 13 points ahead of 8th place West Brom and not a million miles away from the teams infront of us, Autumn cost us massively.

Anyone who says there hasn't been progress obviously has a massive agenda

 

[hktoffee]

Well If he did I don't think he's saying he's not going to try. I'd agree with him anyway TBH I think anyone expecting a top 4 finish next season is most likely going to end up disappointed I think we both know that and I suspect it would be a view that most people in football would agree with. We'd have to improve shed loads for that, it'll be step to far IMO bar a freak season. It'll take a few seasons at least of spending some actual cash and spending it wisely for that. I'd be happy with a similar league placing preferably higher of course but also attempting to win an actual trophy as well and not exiting the cups early doors would be nice.

This "expectation" is unrealistic if the club do not spend to buy better players like the Sky6. If this turns out to be like last summer, I expect 7th again which is the minimum requirement with a view of winning a cup (hopefully).

 

[bluestevon]

2 steps forward, one step back.
Summer transfer window is massive and will set out our intentions for the next 3/5 seasons. Go big early and reap the rewards or dawdle until early August and remain stagnant. Over to you Mosh.

Pretty much this, in terms of both incomings and outgoings we need to make decisions and get the deals done early - and for me that includes if we are gonna sell Barkley or Lukaku then do it early rather than the normal method of losing them a few days before the end of the window with no time to do anything.

Be Proactive

 

[Khalekan]

I disagree completely and hope that everyone else would too.

Since when has the notion that we can't put up a realistic fight for a top four spot become acceptable? Certainly not before this season.

It's difficult, yes. But no manager can at the end of one season write off the possibility that we can nose in their next season. What sort of message does that send out to players who need little encouragement to knock off? A very poor one.

Agreed, Dave.

But for the calamitous autumn and the flip flop and sun cream performances over the last few weeks we would be well in the "top four" mix right this minute.

In fact, even despite the bad run from September through December, keeping focused at Hammers and Swansea could have seen us still with a realistic prospect of finishing in 5th place.

So there is absolutely no reason, none whatever, for an Evertonian to contemplate next season with owt less than a decent hope we can make the CL spots......or at the very least make a good attempt at it.

There is no Great Divide to cross, no mighty demons to slay in order for EFC to get in among that group containing United, Arsenal and the RS.

Just a few good signings and a more adventurous approach away from home.

Not only that, I could see Spurs's purple patch coming to an end and them dropping back a bit as the Wembley effect takes root.

IMO that is how close we are.

Or at least it was until I read on here about Koeman's remark.

I never heard Koeman saying that a top four finish next season is "unrealistic" but if he indeed said it then I would take that as a tacit admission that he doesn't feel up for the task of advancing this club beyond where we are now, which IMO is no better than we ought to be, and the lowering of next season's expectations before this season is even finished is very reminiscent of a predecessor of his in the Goodison hot seat and whose rallying cry to the players at his new club back in August was that "we are in a relegation fight" before the month was out.

Well Ronald, it is working with me already son

A month ago I was posting on here with great expectations for next season.

Now I am starting to feel pretty meh about it

 

[MACCA75]

Lol.

We have a manager you support who has us on the mammoth total of 58 points so far and dumped us out of both cups early, but the manager who got us a club PL points record and to the letter stages of three cup completions in the short time he was here was "terrible".

Your bitterness needs looking at mate. It must be tearing you apart.

Irony overload at that last sentence.

 

[Khalekan]

We finished 11th last season and didn't qualify for Europe. We finished 15 points off 7th place West Ham.

This season we are 7th and have qualified for Europe. We are 13 points ahead of 8th place West Brom and not a million miles away from the teams infront of us, Autumn cost us massively.

Anyone who says there hasn't been progress obviously has a massive agenda

Indeed.

And one would think we should all be looking forward to advancing again next season and building on it.

Which is why I find the manager telling people that finishing "top four" next season is "unrealistic" so disappointing.

Like you, I don't see why we should not be chomping at the bit, anxious to rattle the cages of the teams above us come August.

The simple fact is, like Roberto Martinez before him, Ronald has set the bar high for next season.

Even finishing 7th again next season, if we are further behind the teams above us and much closer to the teams behind us will be regarded as a backward step.

So he should embrace the challenge and shout from the rooftops that Everton is on the up and up

 

[bicycleheader]

We finished 11th last season and didn't qualify for Europe. We finished 15 points off 7th place West Ham.

This season we are 7th and have qualified for Europe. We are 13 points ahead of 8th place West Brom and not a million miles away from the teams infront of us, Autumn cost us massively.

Anyone who says there hasn't been progress obviously has a massive agenda

I dont think anybody has actually said there hasnt been progress

 

[Woolly Blue]

Got a link for this Dave? Disappointing attitude if true.

No mate. I recorded the phone in after the game and it's from that. Listen Agian facility may have it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p051cq5z

Koeman starts talking just after 25 minutes.
Dave's right, but the context is more about this season than next.

Interviewer : How frustrating is that, because that seems to be the kind of thing that's keeping you back from breaking into that top four if you like, the away form ?

Koeman : Yea, but it's not realistic to expect Everton in the top four. We have overall, really good season, what we need to do now, is to prepare ourselves for last home game ... and what happens for next ( season - implied, not said ), we will see.

So, if you're pro-Koeman, you'll likely hear that and think he's acknowledging it wasn't realistic for us to think of top four this season, but he's not ruling it out for next. But if you're anti-Koeman, you'll interpret it differently as a man who doesn't think we're in with a shout of top four next season. I think we all know who fits into both camps !

Personally, I think with a good summer transfer window, we should expect to be much closer to the top four this time next year, but that doesn't mean we'll actually finish in the top four.

 

[bicycleheader]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p051cq5z

Koeman starts talking just after 25 minutes.
Dave's right, but the context is more about this season than next.

Interviewer : How frustrating is that, because that seems to be the kind of thing that's keeping you back from breaking into that top four if you like, the away form ?

Koeman : Yea, but it's not realistic to expect Everton in the top four. We have overall, really good season, what we need to do now, is to prepare ourselves for last home game ... and what happens for next ( season - implied, not said ), we will see.

So, if you're pro-Koeman, you'll likely hear that and think he's acknowledging it wasn't realistic for us to think of top four this season, but he's not ruling it out for next. But if you're anti-Koeman, you'll interpret it differently as a man who doesn't think we're in with a shout of top four next season. I think we all know who fits into both camps !

Personally, I think with a good summer transfer window, we should expect to be much closer to the top four this time next year, but that doesn't mean we'll actually finish in the top four.

im not Koemans biggest fan, but Id take that as meaning this season to be honest. that comment seems totally fine to me