New Everton Stadium Discussion

[BullensRoad]

Have a word with myself? You posted a picture of a stadium with overlapping tiers and said there weren't any?

You're not responding to anything I've actually said except to accuse me of narcissism, because I mentioned a bit of my history/background on the subject, simple and easily verifiable facts.... how is that narcissistic? Again, an attempt at personal insult instead of addressing the points made. I've consistently said what my reservations where regards clarity about funding etc. Feel free to explain how the figures work apart from vague references or buzz words.

I know and have spoken to several people involved in the project from the start, including former colleagues and have also been in various meetings with the club.... Of course it has got great facilities. I have viewed the options, but surely that's the least we'd expect from a £550m-£750m spend. However, you don't need to exaggerate them as the "best in the country". There are only 20-22 boxes (the same as Bristol City's mainstand. Spurs have 80, Arsenal over 100 on there own dedicated tiers. LFC have 64 and that will expand, several relative minnows have 30-40 boxes) and less than half the total corporate capacity of several of our peer clubs. Being on the waterfront hasn't attracted any funding to the kitty thus far and has come at a premium cost with no enabling developments whatsoever. So mentioning the waterfront as commercial leverage appears to be almost meaningless at this point. As with transport, the key value adding factor is proximity to city centre (and an existing major development scheme) and even that is stretched, not necessarily the waterfront per se.

Hopefully, all that will take off at some point as the thing nears completion...... It has to, because at present it is entirely speculative and based only on "bank of daddy" economics. A daddy who appears to have lost his rich backer (who was going to meet shortfalls via naming rights). A daddy who several years into the project has been unable to secure any commercial funding and is now forced into going cap in hand to investors looking to make a killing (with FFP/profit and Sustainability concerns hanging over us)..... but let's not mention any of that because at least we're going to be on the "banks of the royal blue mersey"....! The worry is... after years of looking, none of the banks of Wall street seem that keen.

Yet again you're going on a waffle. Arsenal got rid of most of their boxes to make it like what we're doing.

 

[BullensRoad]

Have a word with myself? You posted a picture of a stadium with overlapping tiers and said there weren't any?

You're not responding to anything I've actually said except to accuse me of narcissism, because I mentioned a bit of my history/background on the subject, simple and easily verifiable facts.... how is that narcissistic? Again, an attempt at personal insult instead of addressing the points made. I've consistently said what my reservations where regards clarity about funding etc. Feel free to explain how the figures work apart from vague references or buzz words.

I know and have spoken to several people involved in the project from the start, including former colleagues and have also been in various meetings with the club.... Of course it has got great facilities. I have viewed the options, but surely that's the least we'd expect from a £550m-£750m spend. However, you don't need to exaggerate them as the "best in the country". There are only 20-22 boxes (the same as Bristol City's mainstand. Spurs have 80, Arsenal over 100 on there own dedicated tiers. LFC have 64 and that will expand, several relative minnows have 30-40 boxes) and less than half the total corporate capacity of several of our peer clubs. Being on the waterfront hasn't attracted any funding to the kitty thus far and has come at a premium cost with no enabling developments whatsoever. So mentioning the waterfront as commercial leverage appears to be almost meaningless at this point. As with transport, the key value adding factor is proximity to city centre (and an existing major development scheme) and even that is stretched, not necessarily the waterfront per se.

Hopefully, all that will take off at some point as the thing nears completion...... It has to, because at present it is entirely speculative and based only on "bank of daddy" economics. A daddy who appears to have lost his rich backer (who was going to meet shortfalls via naming rights). A daddy who several years into the project has been unable to secure any commercial funding and is now forced into going cap in hand to investors looking to make a killing (with FFP/profit and Sustainability concerns hanging over us)..... but let's not mention any of that because at least we're going to be on the "banks of the royal blue mersey"....! The worry is... after years of looking, none of the banks of Wall street seem that keen.

Also hardly insulting you when you're proving me right "mentioned my background" as if you've got anything to support that.

 

[Dixieslaces]

I've retracted my compaints over the wall, btw.

The wall gives the stadium the look of a fortress.

...and you can just about see over it from the other side of the road.

Loving this Official Statement Dave!

Better than anything The Club have done for a good while!

You seen the light(and the Stadium)

Now lets sort the Patterson issue out

 

[allen]

5334 premium seats still sounds like a lot to me. They'd have crunched the numbers and would have done as many boxes as they thought would work/sell and then have also backed the idea of doing Loge seating as well.



Time will tell I guess, Spurs I understand why they've done so many boxes (London, regularly CL, NFL capability), Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool we are so far off those clubs they shouldn't be any marker to how many boxes we should have.

If we've sold out all corporate packages with a demand for more, then sure we may have miscalculated what demand would be.

The important thing is we've got a horseshoe of glass around the ground (with the exception of the South Stand which we want unbroken for atmospheric reasons).

So that can be re-configured in future into smaller boxes or larger suites, whatever the market deems appropriate.

 

[davek]

Loving this Official Statement Dave!

Better than anything The Club have done for a good while!

You seen the light(and the Stadium)

Now lets sort the Patterson issue out

That's what I've consistently been doing.

 

[Creature]

Have a word with myself? You posted a picture of a stadium with overlapping tiers and said there weren't any?

You're not responding to anything I've actually said except to accuse me of narcissism, because I mentioned a bit of my history/background on the subject, simple and easily verifiable facts.... how is that narcissistic? Again, an attempt at personal insult instead of addressing the points made. I've consistently said what my reservations where regards clarity about funding etc. Feel free to explain how the figures work apart from vague references or buzz words.

I know and have spoken to several people involved in the project from the start, including former colleagues and have also been in various meetings with the club.... Of course it has got great facilities. I have viewed the options, but surely that's the least we'd expect from a £550m-£750m spend. However, you don't need to exaggerate them as the "best in the country". There are only 20-22 boxes (the same as Bristol City's mainstand. Spurs have 80, Arsenal over 100 on there own dedicated tiers. LFC have 64 and that will expand, several relative minnows have 30-40 boxes) and less than half the total corporate capacity of several of our peer clubs. Being on the waterfront hasn't attracted any funding to the kitty thus far and has come at a premium cost with no enabling developments whatsoever. So mentioning the waterfront as commercial leverage appears to be almost meaningless at this point. As with transport, the key value adding factor is proximity to city centre (and an existing major development scheme) and even that is stretched, not necessarily the waterfront per se.

Hopefully, all that will take off at some point as the thing nears completion...... It has to, because at present it is entirely speculative and based only on "bank of daddy" economics. A daddy who appears to have lost his rich backer (who was going to meet shortfalls via naming rights). A daddy who several years into the project has been unable to secure any commercial funding and is now forced into going cap in hand to investors looking to make a killing (with FFP/profit and Sustainability concerns hanging over us)..... but let's not mention any of that because at least we're going to be on the "banks of the royal blue mersey"....! The worry is... after years of looking, none of the banks of Wall street seem that keen.

You are a obviously a wum.

This is an argument for when BMD was originally planned. By continuing to spout drivel about boxes, sound and now including ffp you are looking for buttons to push to continue your narrative.

Our new stadium will be great for US. If you don’t have enough options for prawn butties or you can’t quite make out the exact decibels entering your ear holes then tuff.

I click this link to see if there’s any new videos from the kind people that take their time to make them. And to read what other news there is.
You are trying to be the new Davek? You are going on ignore just like he has been for…years now I think.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Also hardly insulting you when you're proving me right "mentioned my background" as if you've got anything to support that.

I can support everything I've said.... most is already in the public domain. Meanwhile you think Arsenal have no boxes (over 100) and the Principality stadium doesn't have an overlapping tier, even after you posted a picture of it.

 

[tommye]

Just going to have a vent.

Is there anything to be gained at this point by harping on about what BMD is not and never will be? We all know it has limitations due to both the site footprint, conservation/planning trade-offs and affordability. We also all know there are pros and cons acoustically in the design concept. They cannot and will not be changed now.

Those who are worried or disappointed will remain so. Those who see more positives than negatives in the design will continue to do so. Nobody is shifting position on this right now mid-build without seeing even one game there. Reading the same debate on repeat feels like watching us get caught on the break yet again to lose at home to another relegation contender. There is no emotional or intellectual gain in the experience.

Surely by this stage in the build we can get past our regrets and pet peeves to focus on what it will be. Flawed? Of course. A compromise? Everything is. Our new home? Thankfully.

We won’t truly know how good or otherwise BMD Is until we are in there watching us concede on the break to another relegation struggler. Just how well will the groans carry? Will we be able to hear a Yank from MSP shouting “they’re sh!te these, get into them”? I cannot wait to find out!

In the meantime can this become the one thread on here where we get to celebrate visual progress and anticipate a new dawn in relatively complacent comfort, no matter how misguided? We are not short of things to moan about elsewhere! Every toffee needs a mental health spa right now. This should be it IMO.

Great post.





Stop cryarsing ffs Dave

 

[Dixieslaces]

That's what I've consistently been doing.

I cannot argue with this.

 

[davek]

Great post.





Stop cryarsing ffs Dave

I dont think that was aimed at me.

 

[tommye]

I dont think that was aimed at me.

 

[Tom Hughes]

You are a obviously a wum.

This is an argument for when BMD was originally planned. By continuing to spout drivel about boxes, sound and now including ffp you are looking for buttons to push to continue your narrative.

Our new stadium will be great for US. If you don’t have enough options for prawn butties or you can’t quite make out the exact decibels entering your ear holes then tuff.

I click this link to see if there’s any new videos from the kind people that take their time to make them. And to read what other news there is.
You are trying to be the new Davek? You are going on ignore just like he has been for…years now I think.

Not being into happy clapping or exaggeration does not make someone a WUM.

The atmosphere remark was in response to the North stand comments.

Profit and sustainability is very much tied into the finances for the stadium, its whole viability and whether or not it will be "Great for us" or not. At present we have no idea how those figures work nor what the club's ultimate debt will be and what form it will take. The original financial model of owner paying for the first phase with the club taking on a loan for the rest, supported by a lucrative naming rights deal by USM has all long since collapsed. The owner/club has failed to secure any loan deal and has had to pay for the lot thus far, the cost has supposedly gone up 50% and USM backing is no-more. The owner may now have to sell a quarter of the club at cut price to pay for completion. Is any of that a wind up? Again, i may have got some of that wrong, feel free to correct me if you can.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I was thinking the other day they could have doubled up corporate boxes on the north stand. Two rows on top of each other, this should fit in the tight footprint as it’s only an increase in height.
This would increase hospitality, generate more income, close the gap to the roof a bit (which some don’t like) and arguably making the stadium look better. Win, win, win.

See the below post, no need for an extras at the moment:

The important thing is we've got a horseshoe of glass around the ground (with the exception of the South Stand which we want unbroken for atmospheric reasons).

So that can be re-configured in future into smaller boxes or larger suites, whatever the market deems appropriate.

I do think a lot of that will be open between the tiers around the North Stand but you're right that if there was demand we could put a load in.

 

[jimmythenut]

Not being into happy clapping or exaggeration does not make someone a WUM.

The atmosphere remark was in response to the North stand comments.

Profit and sustainability is very much tied into the finances for the stadium, its whole viability and whether or not it will be "Great for us" or not. At present we have no idea how those figures work nor what the club's ultimate debt will be and what form it will take. The original financial model of owner paying for the first phase with the club taking on a loan for the rest, supported by a lucrative naming rights deal by USM has all long since collapsed. The owner/club has failed to secure any loan deal and has had to pay for the lot thus far, the cost has supposedly gone up 50% and USM backing is no-more. The owner may now have to sell a quarter of the club at cut price to pay for completion. Is any of that a wind up? Again, i may have got some of that wrong, feel free to correct me if you can.

I think until the stadium is built and bums are on seats, nobody will be able to confirm or deny how 'underwhelming' the North Stand will be.

It may well be a great place to sit.

Also with the footprint of the site, and the fact it's already happening and more than half way to completion, it's pretty redundant to keep regurgitating design flaws and comparing it to Bristol City.

Think the majority of fans will be very happy with the new home. Could it be better , yes, could it have a bigger capacity, yes and no. Was it the right decision to to leave Goodison Park, 100%.

 

[allen]

I do think a lot of that will be open between the tiers around the North Stand but you're right that if there was demand we could put a load in.

Yes, having looked again at the plans it seems you're right.

The North West corner is glazed, this is where the TV studios will be:

But the plans show that the width of the North Stand is apparently taken up with toilets along that gap:

I guess it still allows for future reorganisation, potentially. There'd be no sacrifice of seating to fit more corporate facilities in there, at least... just need to find somewhere else for the loos!