New Everton Stadium Discussion

[davek]

To be honest Dave, I think it's your own attitude that beggars belief. Just to challenge a recent post you've made:

In answer to your question: there's no need to put yourself in harms way for 40 years because it's not the only model available. Why not get our act together on the pitch and then see where we stand regarding capacity and location of any new stadium?

You mention getting our act together on the pitch. How exactly do you think we are going to put ourselves back among the elite with the resources we have available to us at present? We don't have the pull over any of the current top 6 with potential new signings and we saw during Moyes time here that there was effectively a glass ceiling preventing us from breaking in to the top 4. If we continue to stand still as you suggest, the best we will ever achieve is 5th, which barring one massive over achievement from Moyes when he got us 4th is the best we have managed since 1988.

Seeing where we stand regarding Capacity is another pointless decision seeing as though we have sold out every home game this season, despite thousands of obstructed views and the majority of away fans returning half their allocation and our fans still snapping up the seats. Then there is the fact that Goodison cannot generate anywhere near the amount of money we would need to compete with our potential rivals in Corporate seating etc. We are currently missing out on huge amounts of money related to both of these things whilst other clubs such as Liverpool, Man City and West Ham have either redeveloped or moved, and Spurs and Chelsea are moving to new grounds with 60,000 capacities. Goodison is no longer fit for purpose and those who own the club have acknowledged that. As recent as Sunday the ground proved it is severely behind the times as the away section was actually leaking when Chelsea visited.

Finally on location. How can you possibly see us moving to one of the finest locations this entire country has to offer and the prime location in the City as a negative? It will be alongside a £5.5bn scheme for Liverpool Waters and has the potential to increase our global appeal rather than being confined to L4. You ridicule Moshiri and then put across a lame suggestion as to how we will get back to the big time by simply 'getting our act together on the pitch', as if that is going to attract the likes of Aguero and Hazard to Goodison.

I'm not suggesting 'we stand still' though. I'm suggesting that there might be (has to be) a better model to lift off for the club than putting its future in the hands of a man with a 'clever' plan (audacious and dangerous in equal measure) which may or may not be a good idea.

You seem certain that a Goodison redevelopment is a no go. There are eminent architects who would put you right on that viewpoint - architects with ground redevelopment experience who see it as a commercial goer.

 

[IllinoisBlue]

It's the club's officer's job to do the what ifs and try and minimize them.

Look, there's no getting away from this fundamental fact: this would be a half billion pound debt that will hang over a company which is part of the entertainments industry for 40 years. If I put it in those basic terms does it get through any better? Changing conditions WILL occur throughout that period, both for the club (good or bad) and the industry itself (good and bad).

Is it a sensible risk to place an institution that's got by for 139 years by acting in a largely logical and conservative manner?

Everton are very conservative Dave. We are never the first to do anything. Always followers.

http://www.evertonfc.com/content/history/everton-firsts

 

[roydo]

hope in 40 years we have enough money to build a stadium.... assuming we are still around...

And Peel plus assorted others are happy to keep a football ground sized empty plot on the docks till then as well.

 

[ashwuk76]

And Peel plus assorted others are happy to keep a football ground sized empty plot on the docks till then as well.

of course, its Everton why wouldnt they keep a massive hole in a 5billion regeneration project empty for 40 years while we save up the money in a good and prudent way ......

 

[davek]

The tv money alone would not give us what we need to move forward...even with the new tv deal out income is about 160mill... far far short of what is needed. We want players of better quality and that means spending money plain and simple.

You are totally and utterly wrong. Staying where we are and just investing in players with the tv money is a short road to disaster in today's football world.

I said it wouldn't move us forward!

*sigh*

 

[ashwuk76]

I'm not suggesting 'we stand still' though. I'm suggesting that there might be (has to be) a better model to lift off for the club than putting its future in the hands of a man with a 'clever' plan (audacious and dangerous in equal measure) which may or may not be a good idea.

You seem certain that a Goodison redevelopment is a no go. There are eminent architects who would put you right on that viewpoint - architects with ground redevelopment experience who see it as a commercial goer.

What is this better model then? You seem to know everything... come up with a better plan that doesnt just involve spending tv money a little wisely... because correct me if im wrong, isnt that the exact model we have been trying to do? and look where that has got us....

 

[davek]

Just think a little bit outside the Everton bubble we all live in mate.

Liverpool Waters is probably, for all I know anyrate, the last massive dock redevelopment to hit the UK; Liverpools certainly. And once a dock is redeveloped, they tend to stay like that for more than a few weeks.

This opportunity to put a ground there is now. Not in a few years when your as yet fictional football team has catapulted us into the upper reaches of European football. Again. Now.

Are there risks? Of course. There are risks every 6 months in a transfer window.

They are manageable risks though, but the chance to build a dockside/waterfront new home will never ever occur again.

Reckon its a loaded dice worth rolling imo.

Well we part company on that last point. I dont think its a risk worth taking because it's not a small risk its a massive risk. It's a risk that can end a club.

I'd rather bumble along mid-table and see what else turns up than commit to someone's clever plan...clever as far as I can see precisely because it involves zero personal risk and maximum financial rewards for that person.

 

[davek]

So by your own argument we need to spend massively in the squad.. thank you for finally seeing a bit of sense... and exactly do you propose we spend massively on the squad And don't say the tv money that is not nearly enough for what we need

We';ve got "The Mosh", of course. Didn't he say we had a two season window to get weaving on the player buying front? Well he's blow one of them so i suggest he gets his hand in his pocket this summer to supplement the proceeds from the inevitable Lukaku sale.

 

[davek]

You've just completely run away from the facts of how and why it's a sustainable and 'manageable' annual debt repayment.

The total amount of capital is irrelevant, it's the affordability of the repayments that's what matters, and we could potentially cover the entire cost via a naming rights deal, which currently earns us £0. So we move from a ground with no naming rights, into a waterside home that we could have only dreamt of 18 months ago, and there's a real possibility the entire annual funding cost could be covered by a name on the side, and you somehow think this is a bad thing? hahahaha, ok mate x

Are you serious? FFS, read that back to yourself.

How have we become so blase about half a billion quid?

 

[tommye]

I'd rather bumble along mid-table and see what else turns up than commit to someone's clever plan...clever as far as I can see precisely because it involves zero personal risk and maximum financial rewards for that person.

Is that you Bill?

 

[davek]

Everton are very conservative Dave. We are never the first to do anything. Always followers.

http://www.evertonfc.com/content/history/everton-firsts

Well I dont want us to be the first Merseyside club to follow Leeds into the dustbin of history.

 

[willo30]

We';ve got "The Mosh", of course. Didn't he say we had a two season window to get weaving on the player buying front? Well he's blow one of them so i suggest he gets his hand in his pocket this summer to supplement the proceeds from the inevitable Lukaku sale.

Mosh is a businessman not an idiot. Successful ones don't spend their own money, they generate more money to make their own investment worth more. I have no issues with this concept.

 

[sixtynineseventy]

Stop feeding him!

 

[ashwuk76]

Well I dont want us to be the first Merseyside club to follow Leeds into the dustbin of history.

words fail me how blatantly scaremongering you are being here

 

[davek]

What is this better model then? You seem to know everything... come up with a better plan that doesnt just involve spending tv money a little wisely... because correct me if im wrong, isnt that the exact model we have been trying to do? and look where that has got us....

I dont pretend to know everything mate. I do know a danger when i see it. That's all I'm saying: scrutinise every word and sentence of this scheme because it could make or break us.