We'll see what happens if we make some signings this window, but thus far he's given youth far more of a chance than I thought he would, which is certainly a positive
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bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
The big thing we don't know is how much he talks with Unsworth mate, if they have a good relationship it could be that he's going off the recomendations for when to inculde players into the senior side
..I would expect they do talk but let's not forget Steve Walsh is also in charge of the Academy. I would think he's the main conduit with Koeman on the worth of academy players.
If I remember rightly Koemann attended the U-23 derby where some of our 'talents' did themselves no favours at all.
Judging by Unsworths comments at the end of last season and his comments after Koeman's comments a few weeks ago, you'd have to think he's not taking that much notice.
Eggsyblueskin
Player Valuation: £40m
It is bizarre how many people think you can throw kids straight into the first team, it doesn't happen like that. Koeman has so far handled the progression of the youngsters excellently. He has integrated them into the squad which allows them to be drilled in regard the positions they should take alongside the senior players, what they should be doing at given moments and he has monitored them. They have been on the bench to get the feel of first team football and when he has judged the time to be right, given them game time. Now ,6 months on , he has started a number of them.
Anyone trying to find reason to still criticise him on this subject , is simply allowing their prejudice get in the way of their judgement.
Anyone trying to find reason to still criticise him on this subject , is simply allowing their prejudice get in the way of their judgement.
I think RK is playing it well with the youngsters so far, maybe a bit safe but there is no point flooding the team with a bunch of 18-20 year olds particularly at a time we are struggling. Whilst the likes of Cleverly and others have performed poorly then should have the mental strength that comes with having played for a number of years to recover from poor performances. If some of the youngsters are not mentally or pysically capable of stepping up yet then throwing them in to a struggling side could knock them backwards, this is the point of sending them to lower leagues on loan to develop the attributes that can only come from playing competative football. RLK has introduced those players he obviously feels can step upo, Holgate, DCL and Davies, and they have eached performed. We shouldn't forget that Davies is only 18 and DCL 19 so its a big call for a manager to play them regularly. The others in the under 23s like Dowell will hopefully gt there chance but it would be better for them to come into a side playing with confidence than one that needs them to be the main man, very few kids will have that level of character required.
Eggsyblueskin
Player Valuation: £40m
It's surprising how many people still fail to understand the overriding importance of Walsh's role within the club. He is essentially the boss of everything to do with football at the club. Including as you mention liaising with all the youth coaches and senior management. He and his position are mightily important to this club going forward.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
I am certainly a bit proponent of young players and in previous years have followed our young teams closely (now far less so). I think the scepticism around Koeman is legitimate but it is important that it doesn’t become overhyped.
He did play young players at Southampton; I remember Targett and Ward Prowse being given game time. They also sold some of their most talented young players, such as Chambers, Lallana and Shaw. Likewise he blooded a lot of young players in Holland, particularly with his spell at Feyenoord, De Vries, Classie, Indis-Mindi and Wijnaldum to name just 4 of the lads.
That being said I don’t think he is very forgiving in his nature. There is an expectation the job gets done his way or you don’t get picked, with little allowance for development. This will disproportionately hamper younger players. As a rule their performance will fluctuate far more than seasoned pro’s. You will have a moments brilliance but also poorer games mixed within that.
Secondly, it’s rare a young player is ready to play at said level in game 1 but give them a run of say 25 games and you will see a big improvement through that time. Martinez spoke of getting people to 50 league games and I do think this was a good barometer. In cricket it used to be remarked a lad needed 15 first class (4 day) games to bed themselves in. You see that even with a lad like Stones, who’s improvement was profound in that first season. By 5 or 6 games in he had got himself to that level.
All along this summer I wanted us to go in a different direction to Koeman. I wanted De Boer or failing that Favre (or my first choice Tuchel). I wanted us to go down a strongly youth development route. However that wasn’t what the owner wanted, and he has put serious money in, so I am willing to give it time.
Koeman is not going to manage like De Boer did at Ajax, of Favre has done. You can’t expect that of him. What we can expect though is that there is a reasonable plan in place to counter balance the urge to be cautious.
In fairness to Koeman, post Watford I think we have started to see that. There are some players who have no future and he has decided to move on. When people talk about a young player getting a game, it’s reasonable to ask who in place of? I don’t think Gana, or Barkley, or Williams should make way, however players like Kone and now Cleverley are which is fair.
I hope Calvert-Lewin isn’t too badly injured but I worry he may have missed his moment. I hope not. If Holgate and Davies can bed themselves in this season and get 10+ appearances that will do us the world of good, and hopefully towards the back end we may see Dowell and Walsh. We are not going to see loads at once, but allowing a couple to bed in, then looking to get more around the squad will help. Young players generally work very hard and are athletic, which we have missed at the very least.
He did play young players at Southampton; I remember Targett and Ward Prowse being given game time. They also sold some of their most talented young players, such as Chambers, Lallana and Shaw. Likewise he blooded a lot of young players in Holland, particularly with his spell at Feyenoord, De Vries, Classie, Indis-Mindi and Wijnaldum to name just 4 of the lads.
That being said I don’t think he is very forgiving in his nature. There is an expectation the job gets done his way or you don’t get picked, with little allowance for development. This will disproportionately hamper younger players. As a rule their performance will fluctuate far more than seasoned pro’s. You will have a moments brilliance but also poorer games mixed within that.
Secondly, it’s rare a young player is ready to play at said level in game 1 but give them a run of say 25 games and you will see a big improvement through that time. Martinez spoke of getting people to 50 league games and I do think this was a good barometer. In cricket it used to be remarked a lad needed 15 first class (4 day) games to bed themselves in. You see that even with a lad like Stones, who’s improvement was profound in that first season. By 5 or 6 games in he had got himself to that level.
All along this summer I wanted us to go in a different direction to Koeman. I wanted De Boer or failing that Favre (or my first choice Tuchel). I wanted us to go down a strongly youth development route. However that wasn’t what the owner wanted, and he has put serious money in, so I am willing to give it time.
Koeman is not going to manage like De Boer did at Ajax, of Favre has done. You can’t expect that of him. What we can expect though is that there is a reasonable plan in place to counter balance the urge to be cautious.
In fairness to Koeman, post Watford I think we have started to see that. There are some players who have no future and he has decided to move on. When people talk about a young player getting a game, it’s reasonable to ask who in place of? I don’t think Gana, or Barkley, or Williams should make way, however players like Kone and now Cleverley are which is fair.
I hope Calvert-Lewin isn’t too badly injured but I worry he may have missed his moment. I hope not. If Holgate and Davies can bed themselves in this season and get 10+ appearances that will do us the world of good, and hopefully towards the back end we may see Dowell and Walsh. We are not going to see loads at once, but allowing a couple to bed in, then looking to get more around the squad will help. Young players generally work very hard and are athletic, which we have missed at the very least.
Excellent points, youngsters need to either be exceptional or reuqire some lick to break into the first team. Davies has a chance for a run of games now and Holgate had one earlier in the season, a bit like Galloway the previous year. If they take their opportunity I'd expect Koeman to keep them in the first team picture. Its a real shame about Calvert-Lewis as he looked like the next in line, hopefully his injury isn't too serious and hes back in the frame soon. Football has always been a results game and even more so now, I don't think we can expect a manager, who is only on a three year deal, to focus entirely on yoiuth players. As a club we'd have to accept the potential to go backwards and need both an owner and manager who can accept this would be a long term plan, Moshi obvioiusly wants to see some quick results for his invetsment but by appointing a DoF in Walsh is also looking to the longer term. The key for any of the younger players who do get an opportunity is to be ready to grasp it fully as like you say RK does not appear to be as foregiving as some like Martinez was.
...for what it's worth, I sat near him at Hull. He sat next to Jonjo Kenny and the two seemed to be getting along very well. Walsh seems very relaxed and not standoffish at all, seemed very friendly and close with the players.
Dowell is a hard one for me - does things that noone else can do but as has already been alluded to he can go missing for large periods of games. Hasnt been close to the same player as he looked at the end of last year either so really can have no complaints of not being picked for a squad. He was the one that I hoped would kick on in pre season and early this year and get regular game time but it just hasnt happened. He has looked better in the last few games I have seen him but do you really think he is going to throw someone like Dowell in when Koeman wont trust Deulofeu?
When I say Dowell is a hard one im not sure how much a loan is going to develop him going to a lower league side. Dowell excels with a bit of time on the ball which you dont get in the lower leagues here and it would be terrible if he got injured by a danny mills orc-like grock!! A loan move abroad I think would be great for him but who is going to be interested? Would be made up if we developed a relationship with a foreign team like Chelsea and Vitesse where we can allow players to go and play at a decent standard better than the u23 league.
When I say Dowell is a hard one im not sure how much a loan is going to develop him going to a lower league side. Dowell excels with a bit of time on the ball which you dont get in the lower leagues here and it would be terrible if he got injured by a danny mills orc-like grock!! A loan move abroad I think would be great for him but who is going to be interested? Would be made up if we developed a relationship with a foreign team like Chelsea and Vitesse where we can allow players to go and play at a decent standard better than the u23 league.
Woolly Blue
Player Valuation: £80m
It's probably worth remembering he used to be a teacher ( one of Chorley's finest as it happens). By all accounts the kids at the school thought he was ace.
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