Moyes mentality going into big games.

[toffeejack]

i think the figure is also around the 48 mark, and i don't think we can count the penalty win over chelsea as a win - because it was a draw

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's not about the points, it's about the attitude.

Where's the problem with the attitude? We were equal, if not better, than United at the weekend, having beaten them at Goodison. We easily had the better of the derby.

We beat Spurs, and drew at both Arsenal and City. We then lost at Chelsea, despite having greater posession and hitting the woodwork.

So in 7 games against big sides this season, we've won 2, lost 2 and drawn 3.

Yeah, that's a really terrible record.

 

[canuckblue]

I can't be arsed to go through all of United's home games during Moyes' reign, but I do recall the likes of Wigan winning there. You would think that, even just once, we'd win one away game against just one of the aforementioned four. It's can't all be down to them always having the better team.

 

[Azzurri]

Never forgive him for last year's Semi Final. A goal up at half time then absolutely bottled it and lost because of his negative tactics.

 

[sexualchocolate]

Where's the problem with the attitude? We were equal, if not better, than United at the weekend, having beaten them at Goodison. We easily had the better of the derby.

We beat Spurs, and drew at both Arsenal and City. We then lost at Chelsea, despite having greater posession and hitting the woodwork.

So in 7 games against big sides this season, we've won 2, lost 2 and drawn 3.

Yeah, that's a really terrible record.

we were in out swiss better if not equal than utd at the weekend, they had us in their pocket the whole game and if needed could have stepped up from 3rd gear to 2nd and beaten us, it was our annual roll over and get our tummy tickled at OT with a nice little patronising nod of respect from whiskey nose.................the comment made was about not winning away over the 10 year period, not this season only, and our set up is obviously going to throw out the odd draw but I dont think its bad luck that we've never won....and remember we have an average finishing position of 7th/8th during this period so its not as if we've been a club down the bottom or bottom middle who you'd expect to get stuffed

 

[Christiffa25]

Were never under estimated by the big teams, Wigan and the likes are. That IMO makes it a more difficult task for us.

Lets not also forget, squad vs squad/player vs player utd, city, arsenal, chelsea and Liverpool (until maybe last couple of years) all going to plan SHOULD be beating us they have better teams.

I would also say this year has been very different. Don't think any of the top teams have played us off the park, like times gone by and that just so happens with that now we do actually have a first eleven (when all fit) that is very strong.

 

[aardvark]

I can't be arsed to go through all of United's home games during Moyes' reign, but I do recall the likes of Wigan winning there. You would think that, even just once, we'd win one away game against just one of the aforementioned four. It's can't all be down to them always having the better team.

Wigan have played 9 times at Old Trafford and have lost all 9 scoring one goal - in total they have played each other 17 times and United have won 16 of them scoring 54 goals in the process
If you are going to use an example to prove a point at least make it a good example

The biggest compliment you can pay Moyes is that Man Utd were at full strength on sunday - they can actually bring in £16m players to do a job. Ferguson has spent over £10m on over 20 occasions - that is why they are superior to us. If Valencia is out of form they bring in Young. If Rooney is having a mare, they bring on Hernandez. They have paid a lot of money for those options. We have a good 11 if everyone is fit and in form but you can not expect players to be on top of their game every week and if they aren't we haven't much in reserve.

To say Moyes bottled it in the semi final last year is the biggest pile of ****e i hear spouted. How did he bottle it ? He had to start with Gueye FFS. There was no one on the bench who could make a difference. They brought on Bellamy, Kuyt etc - proven internationals. We had no -one unless you wanted Jags to come on upfront

Grow up the lot of you

 

[efcfanwirral]

Moyes always says the same thing going into big games

"we prepare as we always do and we treat it no different than any other"

Is that the problem? because he treats them normally he gets found out?

wembley play off finals, fa cup ties, league cup ties, uefa cup we have frozen alot with moyes at the helm. preston said the same thing about him rubbish in big games

He does treat all teams the same way....from the way we set up at home against teams like QPR and Southampton, he is treating them the same as we SHOULD be treating United, Liverpool and City....safety first...

 

[canuckblue]

Wigan have played 9 times at Old Trafford and have lost all 9 scoring one goal - in total they have played each other 17 times and United have won 16 of them scoring 54 goals in the process
If you are going to use an example to prove a point at least make it a good example

OK, so it wasn't Wigan. It was Bolton. And Fulham. And Middlesbrough. And West Ham. And Aston Villa. And Blackburn -- twice, for Christ's sake. See any teams managed by Moyes in that list?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

OK, so it wasn't Wigan. It was Bolton. And Fulham. And Middlesbrough. And West Ham. And Aston Villa. And Blackburn -- twice, for Christ's sake. See any teams managed by Moyes in that list?

I can't believe you're throwing out 4 teams who've been relegated & one who's on the cusp of it, as examples of sides that we should be looking to emulate., due to the fact that they've managed to spawn a win at OT. Absolute genius at work.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

I can't believe you're throwing out 4 teams who've been relegated & one who's on the cusp of it, as examples of sides that we should be looking to emulate., due to the fact that they've managed to spawn a win at OT. Absolute genius at work.

Does raise the question of how those (and plenty other) gash teams can win a game away to Arsenal, Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool yet Moyes, after building a very good side who can beat anyone at home, can't.

Its up there with his records in cups overall as a huge anomoly when you look at how he's had us performing so well regularly in the league.

Can beat any team in the country at home regularly, can make us the 5th best team in his reign in terms of points won (i think). Yet constantly has us knocked out of cups to lower league teams and has not got a win away to the traditional top 4 during his reign.

Its not right that he can do so well on one hand yet so poor on the other.

 

[aardvark]

OK, so it wasn't Wigan. It was Bolton. And Fulham. And Middlesbrough. And West Ham. And Aston Villa. And Blackburn -- twice, for Christ's sake. See any teams managed by Moyes in that list?

maybe you want to add portsmouth to that list

Personally, and i may be alone on this, but i would prefer consistency over many seasons rather than one-off wins - infact i reckon all the fans of bolton, fulham, middlesboro, west ham, villa, blackburn and portsmouth would swap positions with us now as opposed to a win at old trafford BUT you pay your money you take your choice

 

[aardvark]

Does raise the question of how those (and plenty other) gash teams can win a game away to Arsenal, Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool yet Moyes, after building a very good side who can beat anyone at home, can't.

Its up there with his records in cups overall as a huge anomoly when you look at how he's had us performing so well regularly in the league.

Can beat any team in the country at home regularly, can make us the 5th best team in his reign in terms of points won (i think). Yet constantly has us knocked out of cups to lower league teams and has not got a win away to the traditional top 4 during his reign.

Its not right that he can do so well on one hand yet so poor on the other.

maybe you have hit the nail on the head - when blackburn won at old trafford last season Fergie was quite happy resting players including Rooney. Very rarely these days do teams rest players against us - i remember in the past going to old trafford and Fergie would rest half a dozen players and still have us beaten by half time without us getting in their half.

I may be wrong here but until very recently Spurs record at old trafford, stamford bridge, even Anfield was very poor. Infact Spurs may have gone over 20 games without beating chelsea and not won there for 18 years and their victory at old trafford was their 1st for 23 years and their victory at Anfield was their 1st for 18 years - so its not just Moyes

 

[Jamo Martinez]

maybe you have hit the nail on the head - when blackburn won at old trafford last season Fergie was quite happy resting players including Rooney. Very rarely these days do teams rest players against us - i remember in the past going to old trafford and Fergie would rest half a dozen players and still have us beaten by half time without us getting in their half.

I may be wrong here but until very recently Spurs record at old trafford, stamford bridge, even Anfield was very poor. Infact Spurs may have gone over 20 games without beating chelsea and not won there for 18 years and their victory at old trafford was their 1st for 23 years and their victory at Anfield was their 1st for 18 years - so its not just Moyes

Good point. someone brought it up earlier in the thread too. The top teams generally treat us as a rival. They don't rest players. Utd had a 9 point cushion going into the game and a game against Real Madrid on the horizon.

 

[Walken]

We have to be realistic though don't we? When you spend the vast sums that United, Chelsea and City spend, you have every right to be at the top of the table. We don't, yet we're now competitive against these sides and are still in the fight for European places. With our budget, that's about as good as we can hope for, and largely we're doing that. We can beat the top teams, and are up there in the league.

Sure it's frustrating that we can't beat some teams that we really should be, but even the megarich sides have bad days.

It's a similar thing with the cups. History shows that the 'big four' win the vast majority of cups, and do so because they spend the most money. When other teams win it's often (not always, but often) a result of luck falling their way and giving them a good route to the final, and an easier team to play in the final.

Take the year we got to the cup final for instance. Beating Liverpool and United on the way was outstanding. Our luck ran out by drawing Chelsea in the final. I'm sure had we had a lesser team we'd have won a trophy.

Likewise with things like fatigue. Our squad is no smaller than in previous years where our 2nd half has been much stronger than the 1st. Sure people will point to Jelavic arriving last January, but our trend of finishing strongly has been quite consistent over the last 4-5 years, so it's hard to believe that with the same size squad we're suddenly losing due to fatigue.

Luck does play a major part. All those drawn games early in the season for instance, how many times did we hit the woodwork back then? I don't have stats to hand but seem to remember it being into double figures. It wouldn't have taken many of those going in and 1 point becomes 3. Small margins.

The league does pretty much play out in terms of money spent and wages offered, with the RS being a glorious exception to that rule, and ourselves to some extent. Moyes deserves a lot of credit for giving us the opportunity to compete, he built the squad, but that credit doesnt extend to him being exempt of all criticism when these chances are blown. The board can rightly take a lot of the blame, but while he accepts their mistakes, and collects his huge wage, for me he is in the firing line aswell.