Mo Money Mo Problems

[davek]

..I can see the logic, allowing the manager more time to work on the training ground. The difficulty for me is that it’s not an appointment that can be made in isolation, he needs to form an harmonious partnership with the manager.

At a club like this we need a manager in tune with a chairman (and if not a chairman up to snuff then a capable CEO). It's served us well in the past. A D0F will always have the potential to disagree with a manager and the tensions undermine everything...and allow groups of poorly focussed players the excuse to play both ends off each other and give them a ready made excuse to clock off.

We need to streamline now.

 

[bignev23]

Walsh under the guidance of Moshiri has directed arguably the worst waste of money ever seen throughout the whole world in the history of football since his arrival. Makes that Commoli fella that blew all that cash on crap for Liverpool look competent.

 

[Simon Buttle]

Worked for years for the most part here when we valued giving time to managers.

I can see how it may be necessary at clubs with more pressing matters of winning trophies each year that you'd have that division of labour and how - in the rapid hiring and firing that winning environment gives rise the need - is probably needed for a club identity to be held onto. We aren't at that scale for it to make sense, imo.

It also works much better when the person in charge of the team is a proper coach and not a manager. If you look at a lot of the teams who opperate the DOF model with some form of success they tend to have a coach in charge. Fat Sam and RK are both more managers than coaches, Fat Sam in particular as we know seems to have little interest in making players better and would always rather have some has-been veteran, and he has always been like that since his Bolton days.

 

[Blues Harp]

The problem with all this is we sacked Martinez. If he'd have had Moshri's money we'd now be comfortable within the top 4 and playing beautiful football.

absolute crap.....we would be heading for league 1 You must be winding folk up

 

[Dabluez]

That wasn't what I said.

I have spelled the figures out for you Dave. Take out the TV money which everyone in the Premier League gets and our income per season consists of a combined £40.7m from match day and commercial revenues. So how do we outspend our rivals when that amount of money gets you one decent player after wages and agents fees are taken into account.

We simply cannot spend more than we earn without risking spiralling out of control.

I think we should be looking at a manager capable of getting the most out of the players at our disposal. We have some wonderful young players and some players who have done very well at other clubs. Concentrate on improving the coaching until the new Stadium improves our match day and commercial revenues.

Teams that look to spend their way out of trouble either need owners with extraordinarily deep pockets and inventive ways of funnelling in funding or they go the way of Villa and Sunderland.

 

[mkrudden]

I don't actually think we do have a lot of money. It seems like we do because we're spending what appear to be huge sums, but if you compare what we spend with what other clubs are spending on players, it puts us into a more realistic position.

I mean £20 million for Keane seems like a lot of money, but when you compare it with the £75 million Liverpool spent on van Dijk it puts it into perspective. In those terms, it's not a million miles from the sums we spent on Joleon Lescott versus that paid for the likes of Rio Ferdinand at the time. So in reality, we're not signing players of a higher quality than the Jagielka/Baines era, we're just paying a lot more money for them.

I disagree to a certain extent because, regardless of whether people believe Sigurdsson was worth the money, pre-Moshiri he wouldn't have been an option.

 

[davek]

I have spelled the figures out for you Dave. Take out the TV money which everyone in the Premier League gets and our income per season consists of a combined £40.7m from match day and commercial revenues. So how do we outspend our rivals when that amount of money gets you one decent player after wages and agents fees are taken into account.

We simply cannot spend more than we earn without risking spiralling out of control.

I think we should be looking at a manager capable of getting the most out of the players at our disposal. We have some wonderful young players and some players who have done very well at other clubs. Concentrate on improving the coaching until the new Stadium improves our match day and commercial revenues.

Teams that look to spend their way out of trouble either need owners with extraordinarily deep pockets and inventive ways of funnelling in funding or they go the way of Villa and Sunderland.

But we need a good coach who has cash to spend on players he feels are crucial to his vision. Pochettino left Southampton for Spurs because he couldn't fulfil his ambitions with the former. Spurs didn't offer him cash beyond their means but he's been allowed to spend when necessary.

We need to get back to where we were in 5th and 6th place. We wont get there again without keeping the chequebook open. Very unlikely in any case.

 

[willo30]

The problem with all this is we sacked Martinez. If he'd have had Moshri's money we'd now be comfortable within the top 4 and playing beautiful football.

We sacked him as he wasn't up to it. If we were hiring him now under a DOF then I'd consider it but giving him free reign over a club our size he proved it was beyond him. Thinking about it more he would probably be ideal now as part of a team.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I disagree to a certain extent because, regardless of whether people believe Sigurdsson was worth the money, pre-Moshiri he wouldn't have been an option.

Again though, I respectfully disagree. Look back to a big signing such as Fellaini. At the time, he was signed for roughly half the fee paid by City for Robinho, or if you prefer roughly 25% of the fee for Kaka when he moved to Real for a world record fee. So the fee for Sigurdsson is comparable to that in relation to the Pogba transfer fee, or the Neymar transfer fee.

In other words, what we're paying has remained the same in comparison with other clubs, but the fees have gone up across the board.

 

[Dabluez]

But we need a good coach who has cash to spend on players he feels are crucial to his vision. Pochettino left Southampton for Spurs because he couldn't fulfil his ambitions with the former. Spurs didn't offer him cash beyond their means but he's been allowed to spend when necessary.

We need to get back to where we were in 5th and 6th place. We wont get there again without keeping the chequebook open. Very unlikely in any case.

This is Pochetino's 4th season as manager of Spurs he has made a transfer profit in three of those four seasons. Over the last 5 years Spurs have had a total Net spend of £2m compared to our net spend of £90m over that time.

Spurs are probably the best run Club in the Country, we are one of the worst. Surely the answer is being well run, scouting well and being coached well. Those three things allow you to improve with little or no risk. Looking to throw money at things usually ends with a downward spiral.

 

[davek]

This is Pochetino's 4th season as manager of Spurs he has made a transfer profit in three of those four seasons. Over the last 5 years Spurs have had a total Net spend of £2m compared to our net spend of £90m over that time.

Spurs are probably the best run Club in the Country, we are one of the worst. Surely the answer is being well run, scouting well and being coached well. Those three things allow you to improve with little or no risk. Looking to throw money at things usually ends with a downward spiral.

Yes, but like Koeman he has had the ability to spend large on players he wants and to recycle:

Last two seasons he spent £69m and £71M, having the scope to spend £30M+ and £40M+ on a single player if he felt they were crucial.

he'd never have gotten that opportunity at S'ton.

 

[SteStocksDJ]

Is the right answer.

I'm so happy that I'm not the only one who thinks going back to Martinez would be amazing right now.

 

[Dabluez]

Yes, but like Koeman he has had the ability to spend large on players he wants and to recycle:

Last two seasons he spent £69m and £71M, having the scope to spend £30M+ and £40M+ on a single player if he felt they were crucial.

he'd never have gotten that opportunity at S'ton.

That really isn't true though Dave. At Southampton Pochetino spent big on the likes of Osvaldo, Lovren and Wanyama in 12/13 they had a net spend of £32.7m and in 13/14 a Net Spend of £36.75m.

Compare that to Koeman and in 14/15m they had a negative Net spend of £24.7m and a Net spend of 2.7m in 15/16.

Pochetino actually had bigger Net spends at Southampton than he has had at Spurs. What he has done at Spurs though is to improve players. Look at the likes of Kyle Walker and Danny Rose who went from being bang average to being amongst the beat full backs in the League. That is what we should be looking to do. Coleman and Baines didn't arrive as superstars here they were nurtured.

We haven't got players left to sell on and we can't keep spending above our means. What we need is patience, faith and above all top coaching.

 

[Undisputed_blue]

I think Martinez has already proven you can build a really good team without spending much money.

"Roberto had a dream,
To build our football team,
We had no money so we signed our players on loan,
We play from the back,
With ross in attack,
The school of science,
It's on its way back..."

 

[davek]

https://theesk.org/2018/02/07/the-role-of-a-sporting-director-and-why-everton-need-one/

the esk's view on DoF.

I disagree.

He encourages the view there that the DoF and coaching roles are distinct and with little overlap. But they overlap on many aspects of the playing side of a club. Coaching, selection and tactics (something for the coach alone he maintains) are all massively influenced by club identity and signing of players (the 'exclusive' territory of a DoF).

There can be no such division of labour in reality and you just end up with a car crash as two forces collide...as we've just found out to our cost.