Migrant Crisis

[Mutzo Nutzo]

I've got no pressing need to. It seems they don't want to go that way though. Wonder why they're all going NW into Western Europe? Can't be solely for the safety aspect, surely?

They're heading up North for the Oktoberfest...Beer and Bratwurst are calling to them.

 

[oldblue]

But that isn't what the vast majority of people, who are concerned at the level of migration and lack of controls (i.e. for identity checks and security) are saying. It's not that they see people as a burden, it's just the extent to which its already reached and the numbers continue to rise. A significant number of people have concerns that perhaps we need to consider if saturation point has been reached, or soon will be.

You can't just go on and on accepting hundreds of thousands of people, blithly ignorant to the second (and third etc) order effects.

But we are carrying on without taking into account how poverty, conflict, at home and abroad needs to be confronted in order to mean people are not constantly having to leave what they consider home. It is not 'us against them'. it is a world issue. We need to think how we approach it in a more civilised way in future but for the time being we just have to treat people how we would want to be.
There are short term consequences of people moving around because of outdated policies that mean housing isn't readily available for everyone or easily built. what if we were hit here by a natural disaster or conflict. would we be happy that there is no infrastructure either here or abroad to organise and guarantee that people can be easily re-settled either in the short term or permanent

 

[oldblue]

Case study here:

What are people's thoughts about this woman's right to continue travelling to Sweden, at which point she declared herself and applied for asylum? Why did she not do so earlier along her journey? Did she "choose" Sweden because it offered her a better opportunity for education and/or employment? If so, would that be fair on the young Swede who's place she took in university or in the workplace?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34120034

or she arrives and they extend their education programme so that both go and they have extra skills in the future and more economic growth, The Swedes might just do that. They are so weird

 

[catcherintherye]

Those kids would still be alive.......

I am really not sure about that, it depends what part of Turkey, ISIS are getting very close. The Turkish government have also murdered Kurdish camps across the border so there is no guarantees on their safety whatsoever. I would not be comfortable or happy living as a Kurdish refugee in Turkey.

 

[Blue 1]

I firmly disagree. There have been countless news reports over the past 2-3 weeks of "refugees" on boats, or in lorries, who were from countries such as Senegal, Guinee, Kuwait - i could go on. I would lay top dollar on those individuals seaching for a better life, rather than fleeing war or persecution. That isn;t for one moment suggesting that everything in the garden in rosy for everybody in Senegal, for example, but there is a distinct difference.

Have there?

 

[bflefc]

what if we were hit here by a natural disaster or conflict. would we be happy that there is no infrastructure either here or abroad to organise and guarantee that people can be easily re-settled either in the short term or permanent

Of course not, but that's where the difference between genuine cases of strife - caused by conflict or natural disaster, as you've mentioned - and those just wanting to hitch a ride because they want to disregard standing agreements on travel and entry/exit at borders. the fact they some people are currently doing so on the coat-tails of those GENUINELY in dire straits, is appalling.

 

[oldblue]

I'd like to know how many refugees are moving NE through Turkey, to Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan & beyond.....

I've been to that part of Turkey. No comment

 

[Mrk]

Then your definition is confusing isn't it? Given they were living in Istanbul for over a year and so, weren't moving to avoid being killed;

No matter how tragic the end result, they wern't fleeing immediate danger. They were safe. They were moving for ec

It's not my definition, that is the definition of migrants/refugees.

 

[peteblue]

But we are carrying on without taking into account how poverty, conflict, at home and abroad needs to be confronted in order to mean people are not constantly having to leave what they consider home. It is not 'us against them'. it is a world issue. We need to think how we approach it in a more civilised way in future but for the time being we just have to treat people how we would want to be.
There are short term consequences of people moving around because of outdated policies that mean housing isn't readily available for everyone or easily built. what if we were hit here by a natural disaster or conflict. would we be happy that there is no infrastructure either here or abroad to organise and guarantee that people can be easily re-settled either in the short term or permanent

Have you ever noticed how physically small the UK is compared with say, Argentina, Russia, the other countries of the middle east, Iran, Iraq, India, China......how many refugees or economic migrants do they take in each year ?

 

[tsubaki]

I am really not sure about that, it depends what part of Turkey, ISIS are getting very close. The Turkish government have also murdered Kurdish camps across the border so there is no guarantees on their safety whatsoever. I would not be comfortable or happy living as a Kurdish refugee in Turkey.

Well yes, and that is something else that can be laid squarely at Erdogan's door. I think the count of airstrikes carried out by the Turkish airforce now that they are a part of the "anti-ISIS" coalition is one (on ISIS) against three hundred (on the PKK, who are fighting ISIS).

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

They're heading up North for the Oktoberfest...Beer and Bratwurst are calling to them.

lol How very mohammedan of them.

 

[Jxg]

I doubt that to be honest. Apologies I can't link directly to the pdf, but this link will take you to a government briefing stat on unemployment by ethnic group. White's are considerably less than any other group, which given that most Romanians are white kinda suggests that they aren't clogging up the dole queue.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQFjAAahUKEwj_1qPtztrHAhWjFNsKHRsPA9I&url=http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN06385.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEFsI5cMPjzYvnBDVXgXY5o4FNQ4w&sig2=F8Yevvo_YJLVz8MuWZeR_g&cad=rja

Worth remembering that Britain has the 3rd lowest unemployment rate in the EU.

Of course whites are less employed than any other ethnic group. They make up the vast majority of the population in the UK!

If take the the percentage of unemployment you'll find that whites are less unemployed than the other three subcategories: blacks, asians and other ethnic groups.

However, this was not a debate on race, but rather on Romanians and Bulgarians (who are, by and large, white). Please do not turn it into a debate on race. As a moderator, that's the last thing I'd expect you to do.

 

[catcherintherye]

or she arrives and they extend their education programme so that both go and they have extra skills in the future and more economic growth, The Swedes might just do that. They are so weird

This seems to be the misconception from many people. The most successful, wealthy economies/city's on the world are built upon migrants. New York, London, Hong Kong, Singapore, Amsterdam etc are all hoves for migration. There is clearly something migrants bring to communities that helps them to thrive, a freshness, a set of new ideas that prevent it from going stale.

The analogy doesn't work. This idea that we only have x amount of anything is the distorted neo-Malthussian outlook that has overcome us. With the machinery and technology we have our potential is enormous. What would happen in the question that got asked, would be both the Swedish born citizen and the asylum seeker would go to university and as a society we'd have twice as many qualified people. Or Twice as many people working and contributing via their Labour. Given the incoming pensions crisis we have, that is an absolute God send for us.

If I am being more cut throat, maybe both qualify and the one who is more skilled for the job gets the better job? While I can understand that may cause people discomfort, objectively what is wrong with the best/most adept person for the job/uni course being allowed on? It would be as idiotic as saying we won't sign Messi because he's an immigrant, we'll just stick with Steven Naismith. Nobody in their right mind would make that argument.

 

[peteblue]

I am really not sure about that, it depends what part of Turkey, ISIS are getting very close. The Turkish government have also murdered Kurdish camps across the border so there is no guarantees on their safety whatsoever. I would not be comfortable or happy living as a Kurdish refugee in Turkey.

Turkey is completely safe from ISIS. The moment ISIS step over the border Turkey and NATO will sort them out.....

 

[oldblue]

Of course not, but that's where the difference between genuine cases of strife - caused by conflict or natural disaster, as you've mentioned - and those just wanting to hitch a ride because they want to disregard standing agreements on travel and entry/exit at borders. the fact they some people are currently doing so on the coat-tails of those GENUINELY in dire straits, is appalling.

but you really think the immigration system here is set up to sort this. there were a lot more people sent back to Iraq who were in fear of their life than people who have come here for economic opportunity. and better people smeak through the system than people who may end up killed by someone we were encouraging them to rise up against, because they didn't match our criteria