Michael Jackson

[jaycee]

Is he a wrong'un? No doubt in my mind he was,court outcomes in the US dont convince me of anything,after one accusation if you were innocent you just wouldnt put yourself in the same situation to be accused again,everything about him screams nonce

 

[Billysgingham.]

Is he a wrong'un? No doubt in my mind he was,court outcomes in the US dont convince me of anything,after one accusation if you were innocent you just wouldnt put yourself in the same situation to be accused again,everything about him screams nonce

To any right thinking person that is the only conclusion mate.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Mad that he gets a pass

Does he?

This thread doesn't suggest that

Plenty of scorn for him in here, barring the odd defender, but you get them with all celebs

 

[Connor]

Does he?

This thread doesn't suggest that

Plenty of scorn for him in here, barring the odd defender, but you get them with all celebs

He gets a massive free pass - just look at the people campaigning outside the Channel 4 offices yesterday

 

[Zezti]

He gets a massive free pass - just look at the people campaigning outside the Channel 4 offices yesterday

all of them need their harddrives searched

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

He gets a massive free pass - just look at the people campaigning outside the Channel 4 offices yesterday

Yeah, but aren't those people widely regarded as being mental and most sane people think he's definitely a nutter who probably did questionable things?

That's what most people I tend to speak to think anyway. How really big is the pro-jackson movement? Is it a really big thing or is just a vocal minority?

 

[larrygobfiend]

Does he?

This thread doesn't suggest that

Plenty of scorn for him in here, barring the odd defender, but you get them with all celebs

When I wrote the comment his songs were still being played on the radio.

I mean, Saville was never convicted of anything, but Jim'll Fix it repeats have never been shown after his death.

 

[Tubey]

I feel like you don't understand what the word 'know' means mate. They couldn't run that story about me 'knowing' it happened, because it didn't. The really, really, quite astonishingly simple, point I'm making here is that if you are a genuine victim you should have every right to tell people about it. Of course you shouldn't be able to lie about it, I didn't realise that even needed saying, but to suggest actual victims should be forced to keep silent is just plain wrong, and it's highly disturbing that you don't agree.

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying. It's not about whether it's genuine or not - it's about due process to determine whether it is or not.

I'm not saying they should stay silent - I'm saying they should report it in any way possible, wherever due process is possible.

You seem to think it's fine for them to speak out about Michael Jackson because that's definitely true, when in reality you have absolutely no idea if it's true. That's the problem you're having here - unable to separate the subject matter from the rights and wrongs of the process.

 

[royalbalou]

I feel like you don't understand what the word 'know' means mate. They couldn't run that story about me 'knowing' it happened, because it didn't. The really, really, quite astonishingly simple, point I'm making here is that if you are a genuine victim you should have every right to tell people about it. Of course you shouldn't be able to lie about it, I didn't realise that even needed saying, but to suggest actual victims should be forced to keep silent is just plain wrong, and it's highly disturbing that you don't agree.

Lanny are you ok....are you ok Lanny?

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

When I wrote the comment his songs were still being played on the radio.

I mean, Saville was never convicted of anything, but Jim'll Fix it repeats have never been shown after his death.

I think it'd have a very sinister feel to it if it was shown now to be honest

That being said, they haven't taken Chris Benoit off the WWE Network for instance, nor Jimmy Snuka, and they killed people

At what point do you separate the art from the artist, if ever?

 

[DanEFC92]

World class nonce.

Good with both feet, etc etc

 

[larrygobfiend]

I think it'd have a very sinister feel to it if it was shown now to be honest

That being said, they haven't taken Chris Benoit off the WWE Network for instance, nor Jimmy Snuka, and they killed people

At what point do you separate the art from the artist, if ever?

It's a good question tbh. I think there's an argument for Michael Jackson being the most famous person of all time, so he's probably judged differently to a domestic nonce like Saville. He's so iconic and had such an impact on so many lives that some people are unwilling to see any bad in him.

As heinous as murder is, I think in a lot of peoples minds, noncery is a worse crime.

 

[Lanolin]

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying. It's not about whether it's genuine or not - it's about due process to determine whether it is or not.

I'm not saying they should stay silent - I'm saying they should report it in any way possible, wherever due process is possible.

You seem to think it's fine for them to speak out about Michael Jackson because that's definitely true, when in reality you have absolutely no idea if it's true. That's the problem you're having here - unable to separate the subject matter from the rights and wrongs of the process.

It's really not me that's having a problem understanding.

I'm not talking specifically about the Jackson case when questioning your stance. I haven't expressed my beliefs either way on that case, because i'm fully aware that I have no idea of the truth of the situation. I've even said clearly that I haven't watched the documentary.

What I took issue with was you saying:

"they can question it, privately through counselling and therapy if need be. If you can't prove it legally, don't defame publicly." And confirming that it was "correct" that your opinion was they should "just get on with it" when asked by @Wizard.

My point has always been that if - I even put if in capital letters to try to make it clear what I was getting at - somebody has genuinely been abused, then saying they can only talk about it to a therapist is a disgusting attitude. I stand by that. I don't care whether they have the means to prove it in court, the real victims of abuse should not be silenced because their abuser is dead and can't defend themselves. There's a reason that many people only speak up about abuse years later, and often when their abuser is dead/can no longer hurt them. To effectively say 'ah well, should have said it earlier' leaves a very sour taste in the mouth for me personally.

 

[Connor]

Yeah, but aren't those people widely regarded as being mental and most sane people think he's definitely a nutter who probably did questionable things?

That's what most people I tend to speak to think anyway. How really big is the pro-jackson movement? Is it a really big thing or is just a vocal minority?

Mental cult, for the most part

 

[Harryflashman]

At what point do you separate the art from the artist, if ever?

Whether it’s a lost prophets song or something by Gary glitter , a painting by John Wayne gacy , Peter sutcliffe or even adolf hitler there is a line and rightly so . I think people can ignore it but I think in the case of something like child sexual abuse it’s probably not something I’m willing to look beyond . I’ve never bought anything of his since the original trial and the cult of celebrity around him disgusts me to be honest .