"Medium-sized" PL clubs thread

[Raino85]

They have? Like who in recent times? Greenwood (I know he's a horrible human being but he is a decent footballer)/Rashford/Garnacho have done exactly what I wrote above - spent a year or more in/around the first team barely playing before getting their proper chances, and even then on limited time.

For what it's worth even Lewis-Skelly is playing more minutes in Europe than in the Prem, for the exact reason that the demand is different. Nwaeri is barely starting any games.

We won't see more of them until next season at any rate.

And yes, regarding the position - being in the academy with your best mates (Nwaeri is one of them for Lewis-Skelly apparently) since you're a literal child will make it easier for you to fit in the team that you've been around for your entire life and know how everything works. EVEN THEN, they're still being eased in. Hibbert was a winger, and so on and so forth.

By what you've said here you don't rate Armstrong at all either then I'm guessing?

I've completely lost what you are saying now, and to be honest......lost interest.

FWIW, Rashford got into the team due to an injury crisis and hit the ground rolling, he was never huge licks at youth level, James Wilso was seen as the big star at the time



And yes i rate Armstrong, he passes the eye test. And i don't need to make excuses for him not settling into a mans team at senior level, like he has done at Derby, he's shown the ability and maturity that if given a go, he can do it.

 

[DualityNSNO]

I've completely lost what you are saying now, and to be honest......lost interest.

FWIW, Rashford got into the team due to an injury crisis and hit the ground rolling, he was never huge licks at youth level, James Wilso was seen as the big star at the time

View attachment 305085

And yes i rate Armstrong, he passes the eye test. And i don't need to make excuses for him not settling into a mans team at senior level, like he has done at Derby, he's shown the ability and maturity that if given a go, he can do it.

Very simple my friend.

Foreigner at 20 years old for the first time in the UK is very unlikely to hit the ground running and judging him after a few months is daft.

Local lad at 20 years old who's been in and around the entire environment and team that he's grown up in is much more likely to do better much quicker. Hence the value in decent academies and investment in them. Rashford spent 10 years essentially settling in and building up a comfortable environment, readying him to eventually play first team football.

Moving to an entire new culture, support net and life before you hit 20 is rough mentally, high chance any youngster won't perform, they need a period to settle into the new life. The UK is very different from many countries in Europe, the expectations are different, almost everything works in a different way from mainland Europe. Personal experience bleeding into this, but trust me that it's not as easy as it sounds

Even if he's passed the eye test or whatever (which is non-tangible BS), why is he not playing for the mens team? Oh yeah, he's not ready for it, the demand is much higher, so he's stepped down a level. Curiously you haven't rated him as a flop or said "the manager's seen enough".

 

[Raino85]

Very simple my friend.

Foreigner at 20 years old for the first time in the UK is very unlikely to hit the ground running and judging him after a few months is daft.

Local lad at 20 years old who's been in and around the entire environment and team that he's grown up in is much more likely to do better much quicker. Hence the value in decent academies and investment in them. Rashford spent 10 years essentially settling in and building up a comfortable environment, readying him to eventually play first team football.

Moving to an entire new culture, support net and life before you hit 20 is rough mentally, high chance any youngster won't perform, they need a period to settle into the new life. The UK is very different from many countries in Europe, the expectations are different, almost everything works in a different way from mainland Europe. Personal experience bleeding into this, but trust me that it's not as easy as it sounds

Even if he's passed the eye test or whatever (which is non-tangible BS), why is he not playing for the mens team? Oh yeah, he's not ready for it, the demand is much higher, so he's stepped down a level. Curiously you haven't rated him as a flop or said "the manager's seen enough".

For £30-£40 million i would want a bit more.

Its a gamble buying these lads from abroad, as you say whether they settle or not.
What you are implying though is that they WILL ALL settle.

There is no grey space for
a) not being physical enough for the league
b) not being mentally tough enough for the environment
c) not being mature enough to be able to adapt to these things


What you are implying that (through blind faith) these things will come. there is no guarantee, and as it stands he has failed

Everyone was probably saying the same about Patson Daka, Nicola Vlasic, Naby Keita, Mateo Guendouzi, Issa Diop etc etc etc

That.....................more often than not, doesn't happen, and your Branthwaites, Lewis Skelly's, Rashford's will be the more sought after and be more 'plug and play'

 

[Raino85]

They were literally in League 2 and going out of business. They've been promoted all through the leagues and are now often in the top half of the prem. I don't see how that is not prioritising league position

Fulham have done exactly the same, but they haven't farmed a whole bunch of footballers building a network. Pimping themselves out to the big clubs asking to be there feeder team

 

[DualityNSNO]

For £30-£40 million i would want a bit more.

Its a gamble buying these lads from abroad, as you say whether they settle or not.
What you are implying though is that they WILL ALL settle.

There is no grey space for
a) not being physical enough for the league
b) not being mentally tough enough for the environment
c) not being mature enough to be able to adapt to these things


What you are implying that (through blind faith) these things will come. there is no guarantee, and as it stands he has failed

Everyone was probably saying the same about Patson Daka, Nicola Vlasic, Naby Keita, Mateo Guendouzi, Issa Diop etc etc etc

That.....................more often than not, doesn't happen, and your Branthwaites, Lewis Skelly's, Rashford's will be the more sought after and be more 'plug and play'

The price is the price and it's settled between clubs/agents - the player doesn't make that decision and it's equally pointless to measure transfer fees that teams decide to pay as the players have literally nothing to do with it.

No, I'm saying that giving them half a season or a handful of games is a bit mad, never said anything about blind faith?

They can obviously flop, as have some of the ones you pointed out. Lookman, too, wasn't PL material and never found good form for some reason, yet is obviously a good player. It's the nature of life, not only football, and there's no guarantees, but "the manager has seen enough" is still a daft thing to say after half a season or a handful of games. Some managers are also hilariously inept too - Dyche had "seen enough" of JOB, yet we all know how that's turning out so far.

And yes, plug and play is always going to be favoured, but it rarely happens with foreign youth, and your examples further solidify this. I literally cannot simplify the statement of "player that has been around a team/league for 10 years will be initially better and more settled than player who's just coming to terms with it", no idea how that's clearly still evading you. If we reverse it for English youth abroad it'll be the exact same situation, but this rarely happens for some reason ( ) and the sample size is very small.

I suppose if the players we've discussed settle they'll either continue to be PL players or sell for more than they were bought, regardless of the price.

 

[Raino85]

The price is the price and it's settled between clubs/agents - the player doesn't make that decision and it's equally pointless to measure transfer fees that teams decide to pay as the players have literally nothing to do with it.

No, I'm saying that giving them half a season or a handful of games is a bit mad, never said anything about blind faith?

They can obviously flop, as have some of the ones you pointed out. Lookman, too, wasn't PL material and never found good form for some reason, yet is obviously a good player. It's the nature of life, not only football, and there's no guarantees, but "the manager has seen enough" is still a daft thing to say after half a season or a handful of games. Some managers are also hilariously inept too - Dyche had "seen enough" of JOB, yet we all know how that's turning out so far.

And yes, plug and play is always going to be favoured, but it rarely happens with foreign youth, and your examples further solidify this. I literally cannot simplify the statement of "player that has been around a team/league for 10 years will be initially better and more settled than player who's just coming to terms with it", no idea how that's clearly still evading you. If we reverse it for English youth abroad it'll be the exact same situation, but this rarely happens for some reason ( ) and the sample size is very small.

I suppose if the players we've discussed settle they'll either continue to be PL players or sell for more than they were bought, regardless of the price.

Excellent point

 

[Billy Dean]

Fulham have done exactly the same, but they haven't farmed a whole bunch of footballers building a network. Pimping themselves out to the big clubs asking to be there feeder team

Ok mate.

 

[Raino85]

Ok mate.

Ok?

But they have havent they?

 

[Billy Dean]

Ok?

But they have havent they?

Fulham have also done well, yes. I’ve also praised Fulham in this thread so not really sure what your point is

 

[Raino85]

Fulham have also done well, yes. I’ve also praised Fulham in this thread so not really sure what your point is

Not really seen you promoting there use of unpopular players with a mix of free transfers, bargain basement signings and a splutter of big money ones too.
All with players on there books still like Harrison Reed, Tom Cairney

Most of there signings littered with PL experience, and if not they have big league experience.

No settling in period for these players

 

[Billy Dean]

Not really seen you promoting there use of unpopular players with a mix of free transfers, bargain basement signings and a splutter of big money ones too.
All with players on there books still like Harrison Reed, Tom Cairney

Most of there signings littered with PL experience, and if not they have big league experience.

No settling in period for these players

I started this very thread to praise clubs such as Fulham, Brighton, Palace, Brentford etc etc.

 

[Alan Whittle]

I started this very thread to praise clubs such as Fulham, Brighton, Palace, Brentford etc etc.

Yes, more of this kind of thing

 

[Raino85]

I started this very thread to praise clubs such as Fulham, Brighton, Palace, Brentford etc etc.

You put Brighton first

 

[Billy Dean]

You put Brighton first

I can only apologise

 

[Alan Whittle]

I can only apologise