martinez out banner at watford

[JLW]

What a load of complete and utter nonsense!! I take it you don't go to the games? You and all the other idiots on here who trot out the pathetic "5th or 15th what's the difference".

Well I do go to the games, and it may come as a shock to you, but I actually like watching us win when I'm there!!

A few seasons ago we finished 5th, and I thoroughly enjoyed the season as a whole. More often than not I came away from the ground with a smile on my face and my whole weekend was made.

This season we're sitting in 12th with the poorest home record in a season from our entire history to date.

Time after time I've come away from Goodison feeling like I want to cry after seeing us losing matches from winning positions and generally being utterly toilet.

Whole weekend ruined.

So to someone like me, YES it does bloody well make a difference being 5th or 12th!!!

You play to win stuff


Erm what? I responded to it in the first paragraph! Im not saying it makes no odds, I'm just saying its not the end of the world either if we dont come slightly further up the table without winning anything. At the end other day it all results in the same thing, not winning anything. You mentioned about being in and around the top 4 and maybe exceeding expectations one year? We were in and around it for about 10 years and other than one anomaly of a season we never broke into the top 4 did we? And who is top of the league now? They didnt do it by hanging around the top 4 for years either.

Whether I go or not is none of your business but if you must know I went for many years watching some absolute dross (Smith, Walker, Kendall Mk III) but dont go as much these days due to health. I dont recall anywhere near the vitriol that Martinez gets from some with any of the other managers, certainly nothing banner worthy.

Demanding is a horrible term when it comes to football. Hoping is nice. Demanding better from a manager who is still in with a chance of winning a trophy this year, something that we have not done with great regularity for 2 generations now is a bit weird to me yeah if I am being honest. Just to clarify, I'm not "happy" with the current situation, far from it. All I am saying is just for now, whilst we still stand a chance of winning something, can we not just knock all this demanding better stuff on the head and see what happens. If we get stuffed in the semis and carry on with our poor form in the league for the rest of the season then feel free to break out your pritt stick and glitter and make a banner.

Exactly!! But to win stuff you have to win games first and he cant even do that

 

[Moomin]

I think people are missing the point with regards to @Papa Shango

I agree with him, in years to come are we going to remember that year we finish fifth or a FA cup win. It's the cup win every time.

 

[Lanolin]

Yes its serious. Top half, top 6, its all varying degrees of nothingness that results in bugger all. I wont be telling my grandkids about that brilliant season that we came 6th. I will be telling them about when we won the cup in 2016 (if we do obviously...erm and if I had kids which I dont...)

Its a banner. I bloody banner! Its pathetic. Do you think the people in charge of the club dont see that there is a problem and that some of the fans dont like Martinez (and many never have lets face it).

Some crude logo daubed on some scruffs sweaty bedsheet isnt going to open their eyes any further. What it may do though is scupper any remote chance we have of actually winning something this season, the season has been rubbish, of course it has, but we still stand a chance of winning something.

It makes no sense to me at all, lets kick off about a manager who has got us to a semi final (thats not an achievement of course....) with a chance of actually winning something because he is failing at making us one of the better placed losers in the league.

Banners and planes and all this stampy footed childlike nonsense is a horrible side effect of modern football.

What are you classing as 'modern football'? You know there were KENDALL OUT banners in 1983? 33 years ago? Before I was even born? That's just at our club, i'm sure there were plenty before that elsewhere.

The whole 'modern football' argument is one usually used by those who think they're being uber-cool, but are actually miles away from it. Probably drinking BrewDog IPA and watching Breaking Bad, convinced that they're being edgy and blissfully unaware that they're about 5 years behind the times.

Same people usually give it the 'small club' shouts. Ignoring that United, Liverpool and Arsenal (the only three clubs in the country who are undoubtedly 'bigger' than Everton) have all recently had banners against their managers. What they really mean is that they want to keep up their pretence at being uber-cool and don't want the next Football Weekly podcast or Blizzard magazine to poke fun at Everton because it'll mean they can't keep giving it the big one to West Ham fans on twitter.

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

I think people are missing the point with regards to @Papa Shango

I agree with him, in years to come are we going to remember that year we finish fifth or a FA cup win. It's the cup win every time.

We'll remember the cup, but I imagine Wigan would've rather stayed in the league and not had that magical cup memory. Give this bloke 2 more seasons at the helm and he'll take us down.

 

[BlueShark]

I think people are missing the point with regards to @Papa Shango

I agree with him, in years to come are we going to remember that year we finish fifth or a FA cup win. It's the cup win every time.

That's assuming we win the cup of course.

And it wouldn't take a great leap of imagination to then presume in the years to come the conversation would be 'Do you remember our cup win of 2016?' 'Yes, it was right before our relegation of 2017.'

 

[TraffordBlue]

I think we should hold off with any banners while we're still in with a shout of winning something. It just creates even more negativity and one thing we can't hold against Martinez is his ability to manage his side in Cup Competitions. He won Wigan the cup with a side that he relegated.

If we go out in the Semi then I think it would be justified as that is yet another season of failure and the league position is a disgrace. He's hanging on by a thread but I would like to see him backed while we're still in the Cup.

I think the fans will hopefully see a change in mentality in how things are done at Everton now we have Moshiri there. If it was Kenwright still solely in charge i'd be hoping that if Martinez won us the cup, that at the end of the season Kenwright would have a word in his ear and say, get yourself some help with the defensive side of things, or you'll be sacked at Christmas if we're not where we expect to be in the league.

Now we've got Moshiri at the back of us, I don't even think we should give Martinez those assurances. The defensive problems have been clear for well over a year now and Martinez has stubbornly ignored them to promote his own philosophies that have got us in to the bottom half for a second season running. He'd had time to fix this and has done very little to sort it out, which has ultimately cost us and undone all the great work he had done in assembling the most talented squad we've had for 30 years.

If Martinez wins us the cup, i'll forever be grateful for him doing that and he should get a lot of credit for doing so. But whilst I agree that a season with a Cup win is more enjoyable in the memory than a 6th placed finish, the league is a true reflection of where we stand as a team. With him in charge I can only see us slipping further away from that top 6, and a cup win will just paper over the cracks.

We need to be ruthless at the end of the season and get someone in who can achieve success in both the league and the cup.

 

[Moomin]

That's assuming we win the cup of course.

And it wouldn't take a great leap of imagination to then presume in the years to come the conversation would be 'Do you remember our cup win of 2016?' 'Yes, it was right before our relegation of 2017.'

I'm not talking about winning the cup this year, that's still got quite a bit to play out.

In general, we remember winners not the people who came fifth.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

I think the fans will hopefully see a change in mentality in how things are done at Everton now we have Moshiri there. If it was Kenwright still solely in charge i'd be hoping that if Martinez won us the cup, that at the end of the season Kenwright would have a word in his ear and say, get yourself some help with the defensive side of things, or you'll be sacked at Christmas if we're not where we expect to be in the league.

I'd be utter astounded if Kenwright ever said them words - he'd probably commend him on his season and as our greatest manager and let him crack on.

 

[TraffordBlue]

I'd be utter astounded if Kenwright ever said them words - he'd probably commend him on his season and as our greatest manager and let him crack on.

Yeah, I forgot to mention in my post that it wouldn't happen anyway, just that i'd hope he'd say that. It was worrying to hear him come out with his "what a manager" comments after the Chelsea game, but Kenwright has less power now so it doesn't really matter.

If we want to be successful again, we need to be ruthless. And by success, I don't mean 1 FA Cup win in 21 years (if we even win it). I mean consistently winning trophies, and challenging for the CL places/title. I don't see why we can't have that now when Spurs have challenged this season. Leicester are a bit different as they won't do this again, but they've also showed there is nothing to fear in this league.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Yeah, I forgot to mention in my post that it wouldn't happen anyway, just that i'd hope he'd say that. It was worrying to hear him come out with his "what a manager" comments after the Chelsea game, but Kenwright has less power now so it doesn't really matter.

If we want to be successful again, we need to be ruthless. And by success, I don't mean 1 FA Cup win in 21 years (if we even win it). I mean consistently winning trophies, and challenging for the CL places/title. I don't see why we can't have that now when Spurs have challenged this season. Leicester are a bit different as they won't do this again, but they've also showed there is nothing to fear in this league.

Yeah thats kind of my view point. Winning the FA cup this season will be an amazing achievement - however, and its terrible saying this for me it papers over the utter shambles of a season we have had were we have regressed massively as a team. The players are unhappy, and we just can't string together performances to save our lives.

Winning the cup might buy him a couple of months next season, however i'd rather we said thanks for the memories, theres your picture on the wall for winning the cup see you later and give a new manager the budgets and clean slate to work with.

However, we are 180 minutes (at least) from winning a cup - to make any assumption we are close to winning it, or certain people saying "we have one hand on the cup" is massively wide of the mark. With martinez in charge, being 2-0 up at half time in the final i still wouldn't say we have one hand on the cup.

 

[matty1878]

I hope the banners are loud and clear and start to get the message across

Enough is enough Martinez has to go.

 

[royalblue66]

Yeah thats kind of my view point. Winning the FA cup this season will be an amazing achievement - however, and its terrible saying this for me it papers over the utter shambles of a season we have had were we have regressed massively as a team. The players are unhappy, and we just can't string together performances to save our lives.

Winning the cup might buy him a couple of months next season, however i'd rather we said thanks for the memories, theres your picture on the wall for winning the cup see you later and give a new manager the budgets and clean slate to work with.

However, we are 180 minutes (at least) from winning a cup - to make any assumption we are close to winning it, or certain people saying "we have one hand on the cup" is massively wide of the mark. With martinez in charge, being 2-0 up at half time in the final i still wouldn't say we have one hand on the cup.

Winning the FA cup doesn't buy him a thing in my book,the pressure needs to be increased to get this joke of a manager out of Everton,the thought of him being anywhere near Everton next Season fills me with despair.

 

[TheFinnFan]

So is there gonna be banners....what do they say?

Pics please

 

[bluewally]

I'm not talking about winning the cup this year, that's still got quite a bit to play out.

In general, we remember winners not the people who came fifth.

5th isn't the goal anyway. 4th is the goal.

And it's not 4th or a good run at the cup it's 4th and a good run at the cup

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

Yeah, I forgot to mention in my post that it wouldn't happen anyway, just that i'd hope he'd say that. It was worrying to hear him come out with his "what a manager" comments after the Chelsea game, but Kenwright has less power now so it doesn't really matter.

If we want to be successful again, we need to be ruthless. And by success, I don't mean 1 FA Cup win in 21 years (if we even win it). I mean consistently winning trophies, and challenging for the CL places/title. I don't see why we can't have that now when Spurs have challenged this season. Leicester are a bit different as they won't do this again, but they've also showed there is nothing to fear in this league.

The more I think about it, the more that seems like a theatrical vote of confidence which was a desperate attempt to convince Moshiri he was the right man. Based on his lack of reaction, it didn't hit the mark.