Martinez new Belgium head coach

[hktoffee]

The McCarthy shout is just stupid. He broke his leg! You can't account for stuff like that.

In fact the whole shout is a bit off really. Different players can do better under different managers. Galloway actually did well under Martinez, I think we all agree there, Besic also got some nasty injuries, He never got the chance to work with Tarashaj (Who is just one of those deals that didn't work out, at the time it was deemed a shrewd signing), Mirallas was given a deal after Martinez left.

The damage is still visible because you want it to be visible because you have an agenda. Stop acting like he is the only manager ever to have made signings who remain after the manager has left. Every club has that.

Every manager did including Walsh and Koeman but to blow a hell loads of money on the like in Kone, Funes Mori, McCarthy, Niasse, Besic, Tarashaj was just criminal. It’s like spending £100m on these lot in today’s market.

 

[Papa Shango]

Every manager did including Walsh and Koeman but to blow a hell loads of money on the like in Kone, Funes Mori, McCarthy, Niasse, Besic, Tarashaj was just criminal. It’s like spending £100m on these lot in today’s market.

No you are being unfair because you have an agenda.

McCarthy was a damned good signing. Played really well for us before he got injured, you can not account for that type of thing.

Kone got a bad injury straight away that seemed to ruin him. He was a perfectly fine premier league player before that,

Besic cost 5M and again had a bunch of injuries, the lad has a ton of talent and was worth a go but it didn't work out.

We made a small profit on Funes Mori didn't we? He also scored us a few goals and generally was pretty average. There have been well worse signings than Funes Mori.

Tarashaj was a punt on a prospect, he cost a minimal amount and was highly rated at the time. Martinez never got a chance to work with him and he ended up with a polar opposite manager. Who knows what could have happened if he stayed?

Niasse barely got to work under Martinez either, he has shown he can score goals at Premier League level though.

So out of them, really only Niasse could be deemed a bad signing due to his cost. 3 players got serious injuries (one of which was a massive part of our best season in ages), one was a young prospect and one did fine.

So yeah, not remotely criminal.

 

[hktoffee]

No you are being unfair because you have an agenda.

McCarthy was a damned good signing. Played really well for us before he got injured, you can not account for that type of thing.

Kone got a bad injury straight away that seemed to ruin him. He was a perfectly fine premier league player before that,

Besic cost 5M and again had a bunch of injuries, the lad has a ton of talent and was worth a go but it didn't work out.

We made a small profit on Funes Mori didn't we? He also scored us a few goals and generally was pretty average. There have been well worse signings than Funes Mori.

Tarashaj was a punt on a prospect, he cost a minimal amount and was highly rated at the time. Martinez never got a chance to work with him and he ended up with a polar opposite manager. Who knows what could have happened if he stayed?

Niasse barely got to work under Martinez either, he has shown he can score goals at Premier League level though.

So out of them, really only Niasse could be deemed a bad signing due to his cost. 3 players got serious injuries (one of which was a massive part of our best season in ages), one was a young prospect and one did fine.

So yeah, not remotely criminal.

McCarthy is not a good signing. He is good for one season out of 6 seasons here. Injury after injury and you know it seems he only available playing for Ireland. £13m in 2013 you can estimate how much is it in today’s market.

Kone £6m in 2013 who can’t really score. Enough say.

Besic loan after loan to the Championship clubs and is still here.

Mori no I don’t know where you get the idea we made a profit on him. We didn’t. He was bought for £9.5m and was let go for a couple of millions. A defender waiting error to happen.

Tarashaj was costed like £3m a couple of years ago. Was loaned back to his old club in Swiss and can’t play regularly.

£13.5m for Niasse in 2016. At least he scored quite a few but to spend that amount on him what can you say.

Perhaps you should accept players are crap and it’s hard for Brands to get rid of them even on loan. RM just bought a lot of not good enough footballers, even now Brands and Silva must deal with that.

Lukaku and Barry were great that’s it.

 

[hktoffee]

@Papa Shango. Mate I do think Walsh and Koeman were responsible for bad signings too don’t get me wrong. It just show the job of Brands is a difficult one. Not every manager can do what Moyes did, with limited resources.

 

[davek]

The tunnel cam clearly shown the players had no belief in RM tactics.

No they didn't. Stop fabricating the basis for your non-existent argument.

Should be in the Martinez thread anyway.

 

[GwladysPhil]

There's video evidence Dave.

 

[davek]

There's video evidence Dave.

Thre's a video of two players debating if one of them were being abused by fans.

Is that what you're referring to?

 

[davek]

The comments by El Fraudo about planning the downfall of superior teams is laughable if he is relating to the current Belgian team that he has inherited. On paper they are one of the strongest teams in world football . So who exactly is he planning the downfall of , and when exactly has he achieved it ?.

He mentioned this in relation to his club team performances: Wigan v Man City and Everton; Everton v United etc

 

[Papa Shango]

McCarthy is not a good signing. He is good for one season out of 6 seasons here. Injury after injury and you know it seems he only available playing for Ireland. £13m in 2013 you can estimate how much is it in today’s market.

Kone £6m in 2013 who can’t really score. Enough say.

Besic loan after loan to the Championship clubs and is still here.

Mori no I don’t know where you get the idea we made a profit on him. We didn’t. He was bought for £9.5m and was let go for a couple of millions. A defender waiting error to happen.

Tarashaj was costed like £3m a couple of years ago. Was loaned back to his old club in Swiss and can’t play regularly.

£13.5m for Niasse in 2016. At least he scored quite a few but to spend that amount on him what can you say.

Perhaps you should accept players are crap and it’s hard for Brands to get rid of them even on loan. RM just bought a lot of not good enough footballers, even now Brands and Silva must deal with that.

Lukaku and Barry were great that’s it.

Seriously? A player gets an injury when he has had no history of injuries and thats the managers fault?

McCarthy has been injured for the rest of those seasons, For a lot of that time he had a BROKEN LEG. Why are you judging a player for that? Its proper weird. If you don't rate him generally as a player then that's fine, I personally thought he was tremendous for us before his injuries set in.

We got back pretty much what we spent on Mori now I have looked into it. Why are you saying he went for a couple of million? It cheapens your argument.

You get Tarashaj's all over the world of football, a prospect who doesn't pan out. Besic isn't far off that either, a 5M punt after a good World Cup, he has talent, he also got loads of injuries and sadly lacks a brain. At the age we got him a manager worth his salt probably thinks he can do something with his natural ability.

I also don't get your Moyes comments. Not every manager can do what Moyes did? What was that exactly? What did we do? Loads of managers do it. Eddie Howe does it, Sean Dyche does it, it's a skill no doubt but Moyes showed that he was not great at spending real money which is just as much of a flaw for me.

I also don't understand why you bring up players who got injured or who cost very little when you have McGeady right there in front of you! Now that was a bad signing.

 

[Death]

The man singlehandedly destroyed the top 7 base of consistency that Moyes had created for us. In Moyes’ last two seasons he had to completely revamp the team from the depths of the 09 cruciate ligament crises and the subsequent sales of Arteta Lescott and Yakubu. He did this absolutely brilliantly bringing in Jelavic Naismith Mirallas Gibson Oviedo and Pienaar returning. He also started Barkley off and had just bought in Stones. In our last two seasons we finished ahead of Liverpool twice and would have been back in Europe if not for freak cup wins of Swansea and Wigan. The squad was full of strong experienced players like Jags Baines Coleman Heitinga Distin Fellaini Gibson Naismith Jelavic Osman Pienaar.

In the space of three seasons Martinez dismantled this with no logic whatsoever and left us with what I could only describe as a dads and lads squad of kids and geriatrics completely short of any kind of playmaking ability or pace. Creative talents such as Osman and Pienaar who had shone in Martinez’s first season were practically retired for the likes of Cleverley, Kone, Etoo, Deulofeu, Lennon or maybe any of Garbutt Besic Barkley Naismith Lukaku or whoever else he could shoehorn into a wide position (until relegation worries kicked in in 14/15 and he had to turn back to Osman to rescue us).

The football in 14/15 and 15/16 was some of the most turgid seen in the premier league by us (although Koeman showed we could sink even lower).

If Koeman well and truly cooked our Goose then Martinez went and prepared it for him. The two architects of our downfall. Two utter clowns who are a stain on the club. It is a testament to the work Moyes did at the club that neither of these fools were able to relegate us. That the likes of Osman Baines Coleman Jags Naismith kept the boat afloat at times when it looked as though we were going to completely capsize. That the academy Moyes developed chucked out a few decent kids to help us along through a few rough patches. That he gifted Stones and Barkley to Martinez.

If Roberto Martinez had walked through the door in 2002 instead of David Moyes we’d either be liquidated or in the conference now. The man is a snake oil salesman who could not manage his way out of a paper bag. He actually had the good fortune to stumble across a winning formula in 13/14: play my inept football in front of the solid defence I’ve been left, keep the scores level, then bring on the better players that I’ve benched to win the game. Yet was so stupid he then went and deviated from that in the two seasons after. Who can forget the two worst derby performances of our premier league history under him also.

No matter how bad things may seem at any point under Silva we are now leagues ahead of where we were in 14/15, 15/16, and 17/18.

Amen.

 

[hktoffee]

Seriously? A player gets an injury when he has had no history of injuries and thats the managers fault?

McCarthy has been injured for the rest of those seasons, For a lot of that time he had a BROKEN LEG. Why are you judging a player for that? Its proper weird. If you don't rate him generally as a player then that's fine, I personally thought he was tremendous for us before his injuries set in.

We got back pretty much what we spent on Mori now I have looked into it. Why are you saying he went for a couple of million? It cheapens your argument.

You get Tarashaj's all over the world of football, a prospect who doesn't pan out. Besic isn't far off that either, a 5M punt after a good World Cup, he has talent, he also got loads of injuries and sadly lacks a brain. At the age we got him a manager worth his salt probably thinks he can do something with his natural ability.

I also don't get your Moyes comments. Not every manager can do what Moyes did? What was that exactly? What did we do? Loads of managers do it. Eddie Howe does it, Sean Dyche does it, it's a skill no doubt but Moyes showed that he was not great at spending real money which is just as much of a flaw for me.

I also don't understand why you bring up players who got injured or who cost very little when you have McGeady right there in front of you! Now that was a bad signing.

You do realise how many years McCarthy is staying with this club? That’s 6 years and you took away the time when he’s on treatment table, how many games he’s available？ Why he kept getting injury after injury apart from the unlucky broken leg incident ? Is that the management be responsible for it back then? £13m in 2013 and up to this moment he plays about 100 odd games in 6 years come on this is just a bad signing with little contributions to the team add to the fact RM gave him a contract extension after one good season like everyone else. Yes it’s RM fault because when you look back now spending £13m in 2013 is like spending £35-40m now on the player. It’s ridiculously bad investment.

So basically your stance is RM rarely signed crap players nor made bad investments. This is groundbreaking issue. This is 2019 and time has proven most of them are crap signings which the transfer fees at the time showcased how bad the investments actually were. For me and many’s, the only great signings he got was Lukaku and Barry. Lots of cash were flushed down the toilet at the sametime. It’s just as bad as spending £25m on Bolasie etc. You can’t say if Bolasie is not getting injury after injury he would be a good signing at £25m. He’s just unlucky with injury and so on.

Howe and Dyche can’t spend peanuts and get their team to finish 4th-7th repeatedly, season after season. Moyes can when he was at Everton.

 

[TheBigIguana]

The man singlehandedly destroyed the top 7 base of consistency that Moyes had created for us. In Moyes’ last two seasons he had to completely revamp the team from the depths of the 09 cruciate ligament crises and the subsequent sales of Arteta Lescott and Yakubu. He did this absolutely brilliantly bringing in Jelavic Naismith Mirallas Gibson Oviedo and Pienaar returning. He also started Barkley off and had just bought in Stones. In our last two seasons we finished ahead of Liverpool twice and would have been back in Europe if not for freak cup wins of Swansea and Wigan. The squad was full of strong experienced players like Jags Baines Coleman Heitinga Distin Fellaini Gibson Naismith Jelavic Osman Pienaar.

In the space of three seasons Martinez dismantled this with no logic whatsoever and left us with what I could only describe as a dads and lads squad of kids and geriatrics completely short of any kind of playmaking ability or pace. Creative talents such as Osman and Pienaar who had shone in Martinez’s first season were practically retired for the likes of Cleverley, Kone, Etoo, Deulofeu, Lennon or maybe any of Garbutt Besic Barkley Naismith Lukaku or whoever else he could shoehorn into a wide position (until relegation worries kicked in in 14/15 and he had to turn back to Osman to rescue us).

The football in 14/15 and 15/16 was some of the most turgid seen in the premier league by us (although Koeman showed we could sink even lower).

If Koeman well and truly cooked our Goose then Martinez went and prepared it for him. The two architects of our downfall. Two utter clowns who are a stain on the club. It is a testament to the work Moyes did at the club that neither of these fools were able to relegate us. That the likes of Osman Baines Coleman Jags Naismith kept the boat afloat at times when it looked as though we were going to completely capsize. That the academy Moyes developed chucked out a few decent kids to help us along through a few rough patches. That he gifted Stones and Barkley to Martinez.

If Roberto Martinez had walked through the door in 2002 instead of David Moyes we’d either be liquidated or in the conference now. The man is a snake oil salesman who could not manage his way out of a paper bag. He actually had the good fortune to stumble across a winning formula in 13/14: play my inept football in front of the solid defence I’ve been left, keep the scores level, then bring on the better players that I’ve benched to win the game. Yet was so stupid he then went and deviated from that in the two seasons after. Who can forget the two worst derby performances of our premier league history under him also.

No matter how bad things may seem at any point under Silva we are now leagues ahead of where we were in 14/15, 15/16, and 17/18.

You've said a lot of good things here but I feel the need to point out that Aaron Lennon was the catalyst for our mini-revival to steer clear of relegation in 2015 and because of that I will not allow his name to be slandered in any way. He's not a player who will be remembered as any kind of great for us but for 3 crucial months he was fantastic and probably saved us a lot of stress.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Seriously? A player gets an injury when he has had no history of injuries and thats the managers fault?

McCarthy has been injured for the rest of those seasons, For a lot of that time he had a BROKEN LEG. Why are you judging a player for that? Its proper weird. If you don't rate him generally as a player then that's fine, I personally thought he was tremendous for us before his injuries set in.

We got back pretty much what we spent on Mori now I have looked into it. Why are you saying he went for a couple of million? It cheapens your argument.

You get Tarashaj's all over the world of football, a prospect who doesn't pan out. Besic isn't far off that either, a 5M punt after a good World Cup, he has talent, he also got loads of injuries and sadly lacks a brain. At the age we got him a manager worth his salt probably thinks he can do something with his natural ability.

I also don't get your Moyes comments. Not every manager can do what Moyes did? What was that exactly? What did we do? Loads of managers do it. Eddie Howe does it, Sean Dyche does it, it's a skill no doubt but Moyes showed that he was not great at spending real money which is just as much of a flaw for me.

I also don't understand why you bring up players who got injured or who cost very little when you have McGeady right there in front of you! Now that was a bad signing.

Yeah Jimmy Mac was great before the injury woes and looked like a really shrewd signing from Martinez

Outside of Lukaku and Barry, McCarthy was probably Martinez's best signing. He could have had no idea about the injury issues on the horizon

Now, Alcaraz on the other hand...

 

[Papa Shango]

You've said a lot of good things here but I feel the need to point out that Aaron Lennon was the catalyst for our mini-revival to steer clear of relegation in 2015 and because of that I will not allow his name to be slandered in any way. He's not a player who will be remembered as any kind of great for us but for 3 crucial months he was fantastic and probably saved us a lot of stress.

Yeah I quite liked Lennon too, good solid pro who did a decent enough job for us.

 

[Papa Shango]

You do realise how many years McCarthy is staying with this club? That’s 6 years and you took away the time when he’s on treatment table, how many games he’s available？ Why he kept getting injury after injury apart from the unlucky broken leg incident ? Is that the management be responsible for it back then? £13m in 2013 and up to this moment he plays about 100 odd games in 6 years come on this is just a bad signing with little contributions to the team add to the fact RM gave him a contract extension after one good season like everyone else. Yes it’s RM fault because when you look back now spending £13m in 2013 is like spending £35-40m now on the player. It’s ridiculously bad investment.

So basically your stance is RM rarely signed crap players nor made bad investments. This is groundbreaking issue. This is 2019 and time has proven most of them are crap signings which the transfer fees at the time showcased how bad the investments actually were. For me and many’s, the only great signings he got was Lukaku and Barry. Lots of cash were flushed down the toilet at the sametime. It’s just as bad as spending £25m on Bolasie etc. You can’t say if Bolasie is not getting injury after injury he would be a good signing at £25m. He’s just unlucky with injury and so on.

Howe and Dyche can’t spend peanuts and get their team to finish 4th-7th repeatedly, season after season. Moyes can when he was at Everton.

Explain to me how a playing getting a spate of serious injuries is in any way relevant to how good a player McCarthy is and why you are using it as a stick to beat Martinez with?

You can not account for injuries especially when the player had no injury issues before coming here. If he signed say Andy Carroll, a player with a history of injuries then that would be fair game but blaming Martinez for a player getting injured and still being here is incredibly unfair and reeks of having an agenda. I dont think you are getting what I am saying here because you keep coming up with the same thing about McCarthy and its ridiculous to be honest. Are you expecting managers to have a crystal ball or something?

Bolasie was a bad signing because he wasn't even that good before he came here. McCarthy was good before he came here and played well for us so they are really not comparable.

He got 4th once. Again though you are skewing the stats to make a point when you dont really have to. We regularly came 5th-8th maybe. Big deal. Moyes did get money to spend in places and he generally wasted it. He did indeed do well on a budget but he also had 11 years of stability which is incredibly rare in the modern era and we also paid our players fairly well, a lot of our spending money went on keeping our players at the club which is a good thing.