Martinez new Belgium head coach

[ianefc]

With respect, it wasn't a simple like for like transition.

We played a completely different way, having Everton on the ball and playing confidently rather under Moyes which a more direct brand of football until the final third.

He changed everything about us, top to bottom, without spending any sort of serious cash.

Your argument is one I never understand. Whilst it is absolutely reasonable to suggest that Martinez ultimately failed to deliver - regardless of any context / mitigating circumstances - it cannot be denied in my opinion that he did a wonderful job in that first season.

Utd away, Arsenal away, Arsenal at home, Newcastle at home.... unbelievable performances which were absolutely no reflection of Moyes' team the season before.

Criticise where fair, absolutely. Credit where credit is due is also important.

Newcastle at home MEGALOL. We scored via three long punts then proceeded to cling on for the final hour.

 

[hktoffee]

Not really...

There is a massive difference in spending between when Moyes was getting us to 4th and Martinez to 5th.

Seeing as we didnt actually "qualify" for the Champions League in either season though it doesn't really matter.

I said the net spending per season though mate. Of course £1m in 2004 is not the same in 2014 I understand that. I think Martinez had more resources than Moyes if you compare at time.

 

[mkrudden]

In a sense, yes he changed the style however the old defence drilling will still there in his first season. The difference you can tell in the defence setup between his 1st and 2nd/3rd season was huge. This was down to him putting more of his idea to the team after the first season like not practicing setpieces etc.

Not denying his first season was a success by the way.

Again, not being argumentative for the sake of it but there is more to it than that.

He comes in and has a secure, fit and firing back 5 (inc the GK).

He has them split, playing out from the back with GazBaz slotting in. The full-backs become wingers.

There is nothing about that setup that is Moyes. Zero.

Second season he has Distin become an amateur footballer. Alcaraz cannot get fit (poor signing, definitely). John Stones has to then be thrust into the team. Baines also had a few issues that year which disrupted him - remember Garbutt made a few signings. Coleman also missed a few games.

So we've gone from having a secure back line, consistently playing to a backline completely disrupted. He can't drop Howard because he hopes that he will recover the form he was showing the year before.

He's also splashed his entire kitty on Lukaku. Any why wouldn't you?

The set pieces thing, absolutely. You're spot on. But to say the second season was because he had stamped more on the team is just not true imo. How could he change things to the degree he did without stamping all of his ideas on the team.

 

[mkrudden]

Newcastle at home MEGALOL. We scored via three long punts then proceeded to cling on for the final hour.

Oh Ian.

Go back and watch that game.

The first 45 minutes was absolute domination. We suffocated Newcastle playing some outstanding stuff. I've never forgot being there that day and seeing the complete joy of Evertonians as we bossed it.

We did an Everton second half and took our foot off the gas.

To say that just because the three goals themselves weren't Barcelona dilutes the impressiveness of a performance is, as you say, "MEGALOL".

 

[ianefc]

Again, not being argumentative for the sake of it but there is more to it than that.

He comes in and has a secure, fit and firing back 5 (inc the GK).

He has them split, playing out from the back with GazBaz slotting in. The full-backs become wingers.

There is nothing about that setup that is Moyes. Zero.

Second season he has Distin become an amateur footballer. Alcaraz cannot get fit (poor signing, definitely). John Stones has to then be thrust into the team. Baines also had a few issues that year which disrupted him - remember Garbutt made a few signings. Coleman also missed a few games.

So we've gone from having a secure back line, consistently playing to a backline completely disrupted. He can't drop Howard because he hopes that he will recover the form he was showing the year before.

He's also splashed his entire kitty on Lukaku. Any why wouldn't you?

The set pieces thing, absolutely. You're spot on. But to say the second season was because he had stamped more on the team is just not true imo. How could he change things to the degree he did without stamping all of his ideas on the team.

You keep this excuse making up and me and you are going to fall out.

 

[mkrudden]

You keep this excuse making up and me and you are going to fall out.

You wouldn't expect me to back down and would frown upon me if I did.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Again, not being argumentative for the sake of it but there is more to it than that.

He comes in and has a secure, fit and firing back 5 (inc the GK).

He has them split, playing out from the back with GazBaz slotting in. The full-backs become wingers.

There is nothing about that setup that is Moyes. Zero.

Second season he has Distin become an amateur footballer. Alcaraz cannot get fit (poor signing, definitely). John Stones has to then be thrust into the team. Baines also had a few issues that year which disrupted him - remember Garbutt made a few signings. Coleman also missed a few games.

So we've gone from having a secure back line, consistently playing to a backline completely disrupted. He can't drop Howard because he hopes that he will recover the form he was showing the year before.

He's also splashed his entire kitty on Lukaku. Any why wouldn't you?

The set pieces thing, absolutely. You're spot on. But to say the second season was because he had stamped more on the team is just not true imo. How could he change things to the degree he did without stamping all of his ideas on the team.

The man has never created a side that can defend in his entire career.

There's a reason for that, he doesn't spend enough time drilling his backline and zero time practising set plays.

It's therefore no co-incidence whatsoever, that we gradually got worse defensively during his tenure.

The personnel issues are just an excuse for his complete failure in this vital area of the game.

 

[mkrudden]

The man has never created a side that can defend in his entire career.

There's a reason for that, he doesn't spend enough time drilling his backline and zero time practising set plays.

It's therefore no co-incidence whatsoever, that we gradually got worse defensively during his tenure.

The personnel issues are just an excuse for his complete failure in this vital area of the game.

Swansea?

 

[hktoffee]

Again, not being argumentative for the sake of it but there is more to it than that.

He comes in and has a secure, fit and firing back 5 (inc the GK).

He has them split, playing out from the back with GazBaz slotting in. The full-backs become wingers.

There is nothing about that setup that is Moyes. Zero.

Second season he has Distin become an amateur footballer. Alcaraz cannot get fit (poor signing, definitely). John Stones has to then be thrust into the team. Baines also had a few issues that year which disrupted him - remember Garbutt made a few signings. Coleman also missed a few games.

So we've gone from having a secure back line, consistently playing to a backline completely disrupted. He can't drop Howard because he hopes that he will recover the form he was showing the year before.

He's also splashed his entire kitty on Lukaku. Any why wouldn't you?

The set pieces thing, absolutely. You're spot on. But to say the second season was because he had stamped more on the team is just not true imo. How could he change things to the degree he did without stamping all of his ideas on the team.

Will take that, the attacking style...fair assessment. I am not sure about the defence bit though. There was such a huge difference in a year time.

Every manager will face different scenario like injuries to key players or players getting on etc it's his man management and level of judgment that would tackle those issues effectively.

The best thing he had done to this club was buying Lukaku. Then again I was not denying that. A great signing.

 

[MikeH72]

Koeman will be remembered for rescuing us from hurtling towards relegation battles and restoring some respect and pride and positivity back into the fanbase which was turning toxic. Very similar to Moyes in that sense.

 

[MikeH72]

Swansea?

They could defend in League 1? Great stuff.

 

[hktoffee]

You keep this excuse making up and me and you are going to fall out.

As I said, every manager would face certain kind of problem. It's the ability of man management and judgement would determine the level of success they gain.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Swansea?

In League 1?

Ok mate

 

[hktoffee]

Koeman will be remembered for rescuing us from hurtling towards relegation battles and restoring some respect and pride and positivity back into the fanbase which was turning toxic. Very similar to Moyes in that sense.

Next season will be interesting to see if Koeman can break the barrier.

Still, a Dutch Moyes is way better than a Dutch Martinez.

 

[marsh]

I don't. One of the worst chants we've ever had for a manager and made everything about the Fraud. When we sang about Moyes or anyone else we'd do it once or twice when things were going really good. We wouldn't do it after a goal and make it all about him like we did with Martinez. Embarrassingly small time.

I seen it as more about us, the blue army! I have good memories of it.