mandela gets statue in parliament square
- Thread starter SuitsBlue
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Strange how we can celebrate him yet tolerate Mugabe.
CanadaToffee
Player Valuation: £10m
I must be missing something - am confused - what is the problem? suits, translation please.
SuitsBlue
Player Valuation: £50m
the man stood up against aparteid and became an instrumental figure in the fight for equality in south africa.
that there is no issue with.
doing it by building, planting and detonating bombs is where the issue comes in.
'war on terror' and all that. just seems like a sizable dose of western hypocrisy (again) to me.
that there is no issue with.
doing it by building, planting and detonating bombs is where the issue comes in.
'war on terror' and all that. just seems like a sizable dose of western hypocrisy (again) to me.
Robert Jarvis
Player Valuation: £35m
Well I can't see why we need a 9 foot bronze statue of him in Parliament Square, by all means make one but ship it to South Africa where they can look at it.
Ct jr.
Player Valuation: £8m
Actually that is not entirely true. He may at the start have been involved with those kind of activities which were probably amplified by government propaganda but he went to jail for 26 (maybe 27) years. Then we he was released and became president there was no retribution against the white people there, only equality and investigations but no seizure of white people's lands as Mugabe did in Zimbabwe.
He became president because the president at that time (de klerk) freed him at let black people vote (possibly because he saw the change in time).
Mandela took a country that had spun of the tracks and put them back on track, unfortunately corrupt alchoholic polititians now may be veering it back off course (in a different directon but still...). Please correct if i am wrong on any of this.
SuitsBlue
Player Valuation: £50m
im just mildly concerned that we rightly villify a group of individuals with a half ton of fertilizer and camera recordings of them bragging about 'blowing up slags dancing round their handbags' yet on the other hand we celebrate a man who was involved in the manufacture of explosives used to disrupt services by hitting none lethal targets (power stations, railway lines)
there is currently no evidence to suggest mandela was involved in any way shape or form with killing anyone. explosives are dangerous though.
the guys recently jailed didnt detonate anything.
can you see why im a little bit concerned?
there is currently no evidence to suggest mandela was involved in any way shape or form with killing anyone. explosives are dangerous though.
the guys recently jailed didnt detonate anything.
can you see why im a little bit concerned?
Ct jr.
Player Valuation: £8m
Point taken, but again mandela did spend 26 maybe 27 years even in prison. Considering the circumstances back then which are a lot different from now. I'd say he did his time (especially since it is doubtful anyone was hurt).
The way I see it is like this. In WW2 the french resistance blew up railway and power lines, does that make them terrorists to. I don't see it that way because they were trying to help their fellow coutrymen.
I am not condoning the use of explosives becuase there is risk to human life. All I am saying is that what could they do back then, they had no power and whenever they would try to voice their opinions they would be sent to jail.
I don't really think that you can compare terrorists today to the ANC (for the most part) back then because it is completely different. Terrorists today target mostly civillians and aim to create a large amount of casualties, back then they were only trying hurt the government.
Once again i am not condoning just stating possible reasons and please correct me if I am wrong.
SuitsBlue
Player Valuation: £50m
I only have my opinion, the facts i am aware of or think i am aware of have been scratched together over time.
the cause was of the noblest there could be - equality, pankhurst didnt endanger anyones life but her own and the horses.
with regards the french resistance, had we been conversing in german now then yes the history books would recall them as terrorists. thats a major pitfall with the documentation of history 99.9% of the time it is written by the winners.
i appreciate that terrorism, and so called causes have changed as the times and society has changed. did his participation in terrorist activities (bombs) speed up the abolition of apartheid? 26-27 years say maybe not.
i will have to research the ANC and affiliates because (not flippant-->>) although some terrorism was the warm and fuzzy kind, i am unsure if there were occasions where the nastier side of terrorism was implemented.
a noble cause is only as righteous as the individuals fighting for it.
loosecranks
Player Valuation: £950k
The ANC were involved in acts that were far from warm and fuzzy, Suits, - Google 'Church Street Bombing' for the worst example - but I agree with David Cameron for once, with regards to ANC violence; he argues that, given the nature of the apartheid regime we should consider "not how violent the armed struggle or Soweto uprisings were, but how restrained".
Ct jr.
Player Valuation: £8m
I completely agree and i do understand that the ANC did commit acts like those bombings but the government was also commiting crimes even worse than this. For example the protests that the government called riots were children marching and singing and the police fired on, chased them down and killed them. The ANC may have been considered terrorists but then the government of that time should be considered as worse terrorists.
CanadaToffee
Player Valuation: £10m
Having read this thread, I am quite impressed with my son's input, understanding and analysis. He is spot on. I was there guys - lived the 1st 29 years of my life in SA. The degree to whoch the ANC resorted to violence against any targets other than military and infrastructure was minimal and only after Mandela was imprisoned. His actions upon and since hos release speak of a man who, if only we could clone him, could achieve world peace.
Besides, you have a statue of Smuts there. Google "Jan Smuts" and you'll find a hero of World War II, and a racist South African PM, wrapped into the same man.
No simple answers here. But I would support a statue of Mandela anywhere.
Besides, you have a statue of Smuts there. Google "Jan Smuts" and you'll find a hero of World War II, and a racist South African PM, wrapped into the same man.
No simple answers here. But I would support a statue of Mandela anywhere.
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