Man City Banned From Europe

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Has a two year ban been done before? Seems odd to me, maybe UEFA know they will get challenged on it and have set 2 years so they can "compromise" to one. Either way, sounds like city are fecked. If found guilty by UEFA surely then the premier league have to look at them as well?
 
The appeal is set to be heard before the summer.
If they lose that they it goes into next season, but as I understand it they will still be banned.
 

Good post mate and excellent analysis, i think you are spot on.

The subtle dynamics of this within football i think are something that hasn't been openly acknowledged.

I cant see this happening to a Barca, Bayern or Real or an "established" European power. The fact this is City i think hints at a political will of the other European elite around either their fear of new money, or not wanting gate crashers in the European football elite. Wouldn't be surprised to PSG also be hit with something similar soon.

Everywhere you look there is something rotten.

Thanks buddy.

To me what is happening is a split within the ruling elites of football. Poulantzas writes a lot about this in terms of the political field. That the state is not made up of a single body or social class, but rather an amalgamation of different social forces. He also rightly stipulates that the "ruling class" has different social bases (so for example your big landowner and hedge hund manager are both ruling class in this country, but in different ways).

You kind of see this more clearly with the UEFA spat. There are different forces being represented. One who want FFP to be implemented extremely harshly, others who want it kicked out.

From an Everton perspective the ling term trend would probably be better if it disappeared. However in the short term, City being punished would also benefit us. Really we have to hope that the process is long and arduous and the different factions tear lumps out of each other. The more brutal the better.

There's been a lot of talk of how City won't want this to go to open court. Potentially yes. But UEFA won't either. Every decision they've ever made is going to be poured over in detail. It sounds a nightmare to me.

This will go a lot wider as well. I am seeing Liverpool fans wanting City punished from the PL. If they did that, I believe the season they won it we finished 5th, so could feasibly say had it not been for City we'd have finished 4th and got CL football. Expect a law suit. Expect a law suit against City if that happens, but also potentially the PL for not implementing the rules properly. Expect the side who came 18th to put a legal challenge in on a similar basis. Football will not come out well if UEFA don't cut a deal with City. They are not the only ones with skeletons in their cupboards with this. Once it gets into open court as well, there is then the power to start opening up all documents.

This is City's power card with this. If (and it's an if) they get it suspended, then they will alert UEFA to the possibility that they will appeal not just to CAS but also probably to the ECHR after it. There was a case recently that took over 10 years to settle. In all honesty that was straightforward compared to this one. It would be quite natural for this to take substantially longer than the period above to resolve as a result of that. City's expense on lawyers will be enormous. It's a huge risk for UEFA if they cannot get a clear win that they may have to pay those costs.

I now in the Usmanov thread a few weeks back, someone completely disregarded the idea that this could ever end up at the ECHR (or even CAS). Once you start messing about with these things the pathetic kangaroo court UEFA govern just gets discarded to the bin, as the irrelevency it is.

There is also a world where both lose. City lose, but they pour so much dirt over UEFA and FFP that the public basically state they are sick of it and don't want it anymore. That could well be part of the strategy.
 
The appeal is set to be heard before the summer.
If they lose that they it goes into next season, but as I understand it they will still be banned.

The appeal might be heard, but it won't be concluded by the summer.

The next key point in this, is whether CAS defer. If CAS defer City will just filibuster this for years. If CAS don't overturn, it's a huge risk, and leave them liable to potentially civil action if the ban is deemed not lawful (by them or then subsequently by the ECHR). If I was advising CAS I would ask if they had contingencies to pay City at least £100m for a single year they are excluded? I suspect we know the answer, so the sensible play for them is just to defer it until after the trial, let UEFA have all the risks associated with it.

As for UEFA they would be well advised to drop the hard man act, get back around the table and come to a sensible conclusion to this. Nobody wants mass litigation. A suspended sentence, a fine and a firm warning would be more than sufficient. An acknowledgement that FFP are advisory rather than inked in and there is a hope that teams try to follow them as best as they can. Also acknowledgement it is not their role to start making value judgements on the ability of teams to successfully negotiate big sponsorships would be good. So essentially a bit of humility from them, about some of the mistakes they've made would go an awful long way.
 

The appeal might be heard, but it won't be concluded by the summer.

The next key point in this, is whether CAS defer. If CAS defer City will just filibuster this for years. If CAS don't overturn, it's a huge risk, and leave them liable to potentially civil action if the ban is deemed not lawful (by them or then subsequently by the ECHR). If I was advising CAS I would ask if they had contingencies to pay City at least £100m for a single year they are excluded? I suspect we know the answer, so the sensible play for them is just to defer it until after the trial, let UEFA have all the risks associated with it.

As for UEFA they would be well advised to drop the hard man act, get back around the table and come to a sensible conclusion to this. Nobody wants mass litigation. A suspended sentence, a fine and a firm warning would be more than sufficient. An acknowledgement that FFP are advisory rather than inked in and there is a hope that teams try to follow them as best as they can. Also acknowledgement it is not their role to start making value judgements on the ability of teams to successfully negotiate big sponsorships would be good. So essentially a bit of humility from them, about some of the mistakes they've made would go an awful long way.
Highly doubt it. Uefa now set to look at deals after 2016.


Uefa needed this, a team to make an example of so the rest follow suit. Teams have been making a mockery of ffp for a while and still continued doing it. If city get hit hard other teams will think twice about breaking rules.
 
Thanks buddy.

To me what is happening is a split within the ruling elites of football. Poulantzas writes a lot about this in terms of the political field. That the state is not made up of a single body or social class, but rather an amalgamation of different social forces. He also rightly stipulates that the "ruling class" has different social bases (so for example your big landowner and hedge hund manager are both ruling class in this country, but in different ways).

You kind of see this more clearly with the UEFA spat. There are different forces being represented. One who want FFP to be implemented extremely harshly, others who want it kicked out.

From an Everton perspective the ling term trend would probably be better if it disappeared. However in the short term, City being punished would also benefit us. Really we have to hope that the process is long and arduous and the different factions tear lumps out of each other. The more brutal the better.

There's been a lot of talk of how City won't want this to go to open court. Potentially yes. But UEFA won't either. Every decision they've ever made is going to be poured over in detail. It sounds a nightmare to me.

This will go a lot wider as well. I am seeing Liverpool fans wanting City punished from the PL. If they did that, I believe the season they won it we finished 5th, so could feasibly say had it not been for City we'd have finished 4th and got CL football. Expect a law suit. Expect a law suit against City if that happens, but also potentially the PL for not implementing the rules properly. Expect the side who came 18th to put a legal challenge in on a similar basis. Football will not come out well if UEFA don't cut a deal with City. They are not the only ones with skeletons in their cupboards with this. Once it gets into open court as well, there is then the power to start opening up all documents.

This is City's power card with this. If (and it's an if) they get it suspended, then they will alert UEFA to the possibility that they will appeal not just to CAS but also probably to the ECHR after it. There was a case recently that took over 10 years to settle. In all honesty that was straightforward compared to this one. It would be quite natural for this to take substantially longer than the period above to resolve as a result of that. City's expense on lawyers will be enormous. It's a huge risk for UEFA if they cannot get a clear win that they may have to pay those costs.

I now in the Usmanov thread a few weeks back, someone completely disregarded the idea that this could ever end up at the ECHR (or even CAS). Once you start messing about with these things the pathetic kangaroo court UEFA govern just gets discarded to the bin, as the irrelevency it is.

There is also a world where both lose. City lose, but they pour so much dirt over UEFA and FFP that the public basically state they are sick of it and don't want it anymore. That could well be part of the strategy.

Excellent analysis again mate, its crossed my mind how this could impact at PL level, i think the case certainly presents the PL with a dilemma in the sense do they conform with the Uefa investigation or not, ultimately then it has to decide on sanctions and the right of others, its further complicated by the fact that City have a share in the PL and are part of the marketability of the over all league. Its going to be very interesting, i suspect the PL will kick it to touch for as long as they can.

I agree with the above, i am struck about how cool City are with this, they seem so determined in their position and committed to confronting an "injustice". Perhaps they are confident in their endless pockets and are prepared to hunker in for the long term and take Uefa on in endless appeals through all the courts, until everyone just forgets about the issue and it dies an amiable death of unimportance.

This for me is all just an elaborate yellow card to the likes of City, PSG and football, i dont think for the reasons you mention above there will be any meaningful fall out from this, i think it will end up with a heavy fine and City allowed played in Europe and take a finger wagging on the chin, everyone saves face.

Maybe im wrong but i have little faith in any of the key stake holders not ultimately wanting to keep the peace, cultivate their own self interest and not rock the boat to much.
 
Excellent analysis again mate, its crossed my mind how this could impact at PL level, i think the case certainly presents the PL with a dilemma in the sense do they conform with the Uefa investigation or not, ultimately then it has to decide on sanctions and the right of others, its further complicated by the fact that City have a share in the PL and are part of the marketability of the over all league. Its going to be very interesting, i suspect the PL will kick it to touch for as long as they can.

I agree with the above, i am struck about how cool City are with this, they seem so determined in their position and committed to confronting an "injustice". Perhaps they are confident in their endless pockets and are prepared to hunker in for the long term and take Uefa on in endless appeals through all the courts, until everyone just forgets about the issue and it dies an amiable death of unimportance.

This for me is all just an elaborate yellow card to the likes of City, PSG and football, i dont think for the reasons you mention above there will be any meaningful fall out from this, i think it will end up with a heavy fine and City allowed played in Europe and take a finger wagging on the chin, everyone saves face.

Maybe im wrong but i have little faith in any of the key stake holders not ultimately wanting to keep the peace, cultivate their own self interest and not rock the boat to much.

In lay terms, City have been really really dumb and almost gone out of their way to make no attempts to cover their tracks. That is the only reason they are in trouble. On the flip, even in spite of this they know the law just does not stand up to ECHR regulations. You cannot legislate for unfair competition and honestly expect that not to be overturned at a legal level.

I mean I know I used the tennis analogy but I will do so again. Imagine if the WTA said, for fairness they are going to limit the amount players can spend on travel, to stop some players going first class and others having to bunk in the back of a truck. They could probably get away with it (difficult but they'd probably be ok). If you then started to say though, that you are actually allowed to spend more, depending on your revenue that year this wouldn't work. This seems to then be doubled down upon, by saying that if player y acquires the sponsorship of player x to allow them to then spend as much, they are going to penalise them. Any court is just going to say thats a racketed in breach of the founding principles of law.

In this case, if a tennis player said, do you now what, I'm being the same plane ticket as Rodger Federer, if they were punished for doing so, it just wouldn't hold. Forget that they signed up to private games rules, those things hold no power once you move into the legal field.

City seem very confident to me. I don't think they care as much about the mud thrown at them. It is not their job to be liked, respected and judged as a credible arbiter. If they look like cheats, it really doesn't matter. Most people hated Manchester United and thought they were cheats, it has no relevance. UEFA it does though. If they look to be tarnished it eats away at their credibility. We all expect a rule making and arbiter to be above that.

I think City know they can take this deep, and credibility is hit for UEFA. As it's credibility is hit more, more pressure comes onto FFP. If FFP falls they have all manner of problems. Firstly the City's of this world start spending enormously again, and they may also then sue to say the system never worked to begin with (even if they lose this the first time round). Secondly the more traditional elite clubs are going to kick off big time, as any controls they have disappears, expect enormous pressure for a break away super league.

This might sound really outrageous, and it's by no means the most likely model but don't rule out FIFA (or an alternative association) licensing such a league with a handful of their own teams. North America, or the Gulf association could well consider it. Bring 12-14 across and have 4-6 of your own teams. Franchise it, give Juventus a base in a major America city where they can play some games. We are already seeing some African and Oceanic team playing home fixtures in Europe. It seems a big stretch but it's really not.

This is high stakes poker. If I'm honest I think UEFA look quite hysterical in this episode and are panicking a bit. I think settling this issue and getting city to play better lip service to a set of rules that are probably unenforceable and exist on the basis of good will is their best ploy. It will mean being prepared to treat City as a bit of a test case though.
 
Highly doubt it. Uefa now set to look at deals after 2016.


Uefa needed this, a team to make an example of so the rest follow suit. Teams have been making a mockery of ffp for a while and still continued doing it. If city get hit hard other teams will think twice about breaking rules.

The problem is, it will look incredibly weak to now all of a sudden start looking at deals that they have okayed up to 4 years ago. Under cross examination they will be made to look really stupid. "Mr UEFA, why are you saying such a deal is wrong now, but at the time you said was perfectly fine?'.

Your fundamental mistake is assuming FFP laws are workable. They are not. Once they are seriously tested they are going to fall. City's own brazen disregard for them may give them a lucky get off. It would be an enormous mistake to then start overarching their influence.

CAS have't immediately thrown this out. They clearly consider it a live case. That doesn't bode well for UEFA. They are going to be dragged into deep waters on this, and I'll be honest I'm not sure they will want to swim in them.

For me, they've made their point, time to cut and run. Suspend the sentence, have it as a final warning for City (who have been a lot better post 2012) and accept that some financial support for clubs is inevitable and there's nothing inherently wrong with it, as long as it doesn't become to mind boggling amounts (like Chelsea spending as much as all the other teams combined).
 

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