2021/22 Lucas Digne

[Eggsyblueskin]

*Looks at most successful managers over the past 20 years.

Not sure this is true mate.

It’s a very good point that.
But I think the difference is between installing an authoritarian manager to bring in the discipline to a side who are within reach of success, and requiring one to come in and build the entire structure.
I think authoritarian managers will build a club that is largely formulaic and rigid in its style , lacking flair and personal initiative and unable to react to changing demands and challenges.

 

[Toffeelover]

but we gain a player who Rafael will play and we hold on to digne till we get a proper offfer

Bentiez can play any one on our books, it does not mean they are good enough, me I do not think Barkley is good enough.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

It's ridiculous not to make the connection is what Ilm saying.

If someone were to say a player trained all week and was fine and was available for selection you wouldn't bat an eyelid. If they said they trained and were fine but they have chosen not to make themselves available that is a double take moment. Benitez knew what he was doing and how it would be (correctly) interpreted.

But please, dont let me stop you from defending some bang average Frenchman weho has turned his back on this club because he cant take orders form a manager....flouncing off with his Gallic shrugs.

Bollox to Digne and any other refusenik who wont pull the royal blue on when asked.

It really doesn’t matter about the why’s and wherefore’s here.
If the manager is forced to replace a first team player half way through the season and therefore find a replacement it represents a failure of management.
This is not a player who has a history of poor discipline.
A good manager works with what he has and brings in changes after due consideration not peremptorily.
He has also managed to compromise the value of the player because his sale is a matter of urgency.
I do not see how this can be seen as anything but a failure on the part of the manager.

 

[Toffeelover]

It really doesn’t matter about the why’s and wherefore’s here.
If the manager is forced to replace a first team player half way through the season and therefore find a replacement it represents a failure of management.
This is not a player who has a history of poor discipline.
A good manager works with what he has and brings in changes after due consideration not peremptorily.
He has also managed to compromise the value of the player because his sale is a matter of urgency.
I do not see how this can be seen as anything but a failure on the part of the manager.

Which is exactly why we are stuck with clubs l;ooking for loans.

 

[Baines' left foot]

Best site managers come from the trades and have an understanding of the realities of what is possible. If managers are reasonable and personable you always try to keep them happy. Quid pro quo.
But nowadays a lot of managers are young kids straight from college and they are largely utter bells who never seem to get it. You can only work with them by ignoring them completely.

I used to be a bricklayer and it definitely helped give a more realistic perspective of what can and can’t be done.

We had a young QS in the office who tried to be the big man from day 1. He was quickly brought back down to earth. He turned out alright in the end though.

Sometimes you’ll get given a deadline by your PM and you instantly know it’s not achievable. You raise your concerns and you just get shrugged at.

 

[ted]

Bentiez can play any one on our books, it does not mean they are good enough, me I do not think Barkley is good enough.

its not about barkley, its about getting decent money for a player who fat man shouldnt be selling

 

[sdk]

There once was a thread about Lucas Digne
but it developed schizophrenia
and then it tumbled straight to hell
as another thread about Rafael.

 

[Clarky cat]

There once was a thread about Lucas Digne
but it developed schizophrenia
and then it tumbled straight to hell
as another thread about Rafael.

You can remove this bit and replace with every other thread title, it’s nauseating. Surely there must be a virtual weatherspoons for these wannabe extras from ”one over the cuckoos nest“ to all huddle together around one of the pillars with their shopping bags…. Staring into the middle distance.

what drink do you want?
Benitez…Rafael… Ra….Ben….fat…..Benitez…… RAF… shi….waiter…..grrrr….
I’ll get you a lager….

 

[Furey1878]

Sell him while he'll be at his most valued. Hold on for any longer and we have yet another aging full back on big money on the decline.

We have to be more ruthless with players.

 

[Littlesue]

In todays training pics so maybe part of team tomorrow?

 

[WA Toffee]

No ppl are making rubbish up about Rafael to discredit him, one being that he is trying to force Lucas out and another is he told him to not go forward.
If its true he did tell him to not go forward and he has a problem with that, he clearly has no interest in playing for the club and should be punted.

oh, so you made it up.

ok.

 

[whiteshadow]

Not sure how it's a failure of management if he sells a player he doesn't want.

Wether it's a good decision or not in the long run is a different matter but if he wants a different style fullback it's his choice.

If Digne doesn't want to play to his tactics or Rafael just doesn't think he's good enough defensively it's the right decision. Not arguing about the quality of player as he is a good player but if he doesn't suit Rafael's system it would be stupid to keep him just because some fans like him.

 

[BigDuncTributeBand]

Setting aside the debate about him at our club and if we like him, he is probably in the top 1% of managers in the world and had been relatively consistently? He's literally an incredibly successful football manager so either he's not entirely like you say, or you're wrong in your conclusion.

There’s plenty of evidence that he’s this type of personality and people manager. His own statements and those of players who have been managed by him, for example.

I’m not sure what you think my conclusion is - it isn’t that he’s not had success or that this type of manager can’t be successful. Like I said, they tend to be subject matter experts, detail and results focussed, highly self motivated. All laudable attributes so it’s not that I’m saying he has no positive leadership traits.

Just their focus on objective outcomes tends to leave a lot of collateral trailing in their wake when it comes to the people they manage. Which is the down side of this style. You’re seeing that with his clumsy handling of Digne - a better people manager doesn’t get into this situation.

 

[4737carlin]

Not sure how it's a failure of management if he sells a player he doesn't want.

Wether it's a good decision or not in the long run is a different matter but if he wants a different style fullback it's his choice.

If Digne doesn't want to play to his tactics or Rafael just doesn't think he's good enough defensively it's the right decision. Not arguing about the quality of player as he is a good player but if he doesn't suit Rafael's system it would be stupid to keep him just because some fans like him.

Good point, getting deadwood out has been a problem in the last.

 

[davek]

It really doesn’t matter about the why’s and wherefore’s here.
If the manager is forced to replace a first team player half way through the season and therefore find a replacement it represents a failure of management.
This is not a player who has a history of poor discipline.
A good manager works with what he has and brings in changes after due consideration not peremptorily.
He has also managed to compromise the value of the player because his sale is a matter of urgency.
I do not see how this can be seen as anything but a failure on the part of the manager.

• Manager wants to play a certain way
• Player says he wants to play the way he wants to play
• Manager gets shut of player for being a bellend

That's about the "complexity" of this situation.

No manager allows a player like Digne to call the shots on team tactics. If they did they'd be weak and easily dismissed by the rest of the squad. Maybe that happened in the past at Goodison, but not on this feller's watch. And more power to him.