Which ones exactly?
Current Affairs Labour and Anti Semitism.......
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Questioning Israel's right to exist, despite the fact it comes at the cost of the livlihoods of the Palestinian people - for a start.
This is exactly the point I'm making....it doesn't have to. Nothing within the definition says 'Israel and Palestine cannot co-exist' and Israel as a state must come at the expense of Palestine.
But some may argue that it's impossible for Israel to exist without the "cost" to the Palestinian people.
During the South African apartheid, many people argued that they should just "split" South Africa into White and Black nations, both with their own democracies and civil rights.
Why did we reject this?
The definition says 'a' state of Israel, not 'the' state of Israel. The definition starts from a point of political neutrality and works a definition from there.
Some may argue that having any enthonationalistic state is unworkable under any instance, due to the inherit costs of other non-whatever people, whether it be blacks or Palestinians.
It doesn't say that Palestinians cannot live in a state of Israel or that blacks can't.
Do you think the LP should be questioning Israel’s right to exist?
This is the alternative isn't it...the denial of an Israeli State because people don't like the politics of the current state of Israel..
The IHRA definition doesn't mention any thing about 'the state of Israel' or 'a state of Irsael'.
Adopt the following non-legally binding working definition of antisemitism:
“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”
It's in the examples where 'Israel and state' are mentioned. And it's some of the examples Labour's NEC are against.
The 'state of Israel' was forged in 1948 by forcefully removing Palestinians and others, from their land, houses, apartments and businesses at the point of a gun. Peace will only ever happen in Palestine when those forcefully removed can get their homeland back.
Quite right it's in the examples, but we were discussing it in its totality.
But once again, the history of how Israel was formed, shouldn't mean that the notion of a state of Israel is fought against.
Brown et al are attacking Labour because they say Labour haven't adopted the 'definition'. Which they have. Labour's NEC decide to have some examples and not others. There are Jewish organisations that are against those examples.
The 'state of Israel' was formed at the point of a gun forcefully removing the inhabitants from their land, property and businesses. There will not be peace until those forcefully removed are allowed to return to their homeland and reclaim what was taken illegally from them.
Or... it's been 80 years now since Israel was created, reality needs to come to the fore and there needs to be a two state solution that allows two equally viable nations to live side by side.
Because Israel isn't going to disappear anytime soon. The negotiation 'red line' of 'Israel needs to do one' isn't going to be a starter.
tsubaki
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Well yes, but that’s to reduce the debate to a point of absurdity - Israel does exist, the issue is how it treats its own citizens (Jews as well as Arabs) and its relations with the Occupied Territories and its neighbours.
TBH I think even the right of return isn’t absolute, a fair negotiation could result in that being resolved without it being brought in. The point of course though is that no fair negotiations are on offer.
So which of the 7 million displaced Palestinians are you going to say can't have their land, houses or businesses back? Who is going to make that judgement? The Palestinians or those occupying their homeland? An injustice was done in 1948 and the only way to reverse that injustice is for those forcefully removed from their land, houses and businesses to be allowed to return and reclaim their homeland.
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