2018/19 Kieran Dowell

[Nyhus]

And like you say, expectations are ridiculously high.

Shouldn't it be high for all our players? If a player is performing to a low standard, I honestly don't think age matter - they shouldn't play when we have better available. We haven't won anything of real worth for decades, if we want trophies we have to play our best team selection, not give underperforming youngsters a shot. Everton never seems to learn this, which is why we are beaten by "worse" teams year after year. Their best teams are better than our b-teams. Ergo we keep loosing these games, and its incredibly frustrating to watch.

 

[Cameron Manning]

A lot of that is fair mate, but I think you are wrong to say he isn't interested. He just has a very languid style about him, very similar to the great (IMO) Matt Le Tissier back in the day. It's in his make up and I don't think he will ever change that. He's the footballing equivalent of Bill Nighy.lol

His natural ability is unquestioned, but in many ways he has so much more than our other young players to develop before being ready for our first team. In fact, I'm beginning to doubt he will ever be ready for us because his game isn't really suited to our league.

His biggest failings for me are not his application or work rate, if you watch his game he does normally put in a shift. But he does switch off at times (a concentration issue) drifts out of games for long periods, and is absolute rubbish at finding little pockets of space for himself, imperative when playing 10.

The big question is where do you play him. I think you'd need to build your team around him, but there's no room in the current English game for a modern Matt Le Tissier. If you give him a run of games I'm pretty certain he'll give you a decent return in assists and goals, because he has that quality. But he won't bring much else to the game, and that will be the overriding factor I'm afraid. If I was Silva, I'd have him on the bench when up against teams who park the bus, because his quality could help if we're struggling to break teams down. But realistically, at this stage, his opportunities are going to be pretty limited, especially after going out of the cup the other night which has put extra pressure on the manager.

Just to make it clear I was stating he didn't look interested was in relation to the one particular game, the one versus Spurs, I don't know if you saw that game, if you did it's possible you might agree with me. I agree with most of what you say about Keiron, I just think it's a shame he get to grips with the fact that if he could put physicality into his game what a player he would be, he's still only young so maybe he can put a bit more into his game.

 

[Cameron Manning]

This from a chap who has probably seen more of Dowell playing than the rest of us combined says it all for me
If Cameron says he hasn’t got it then that says it all
And from what I’ve read Cameron wants our young players to succeed

Don't we all want our young players to succeed, I honestly never like to criticise young players but when I do I think it is
constructive criticism, pointing their faults out, hoping they can improve those faults. I think those in charge of Keiron will have been telling him the same faults, so it is really up to Dowell himself to up his game, he can be a very good player with a great career ahead of him if he does.

 

[Cameron Manning]

Funny how his detractors like to ignore his loan spell and want him binned off the one performance the other night. Sure if he had played well they'd say "it's only one game, Southampton weren't even trying, doesn't mean anything"...



Can't say I recall ever reading posts of his in the Youth Teams thread. Anyone can say they watched someone for 5 years, doesn't make it true or them any good judge of ability.

Of course it doesn't make me a good judge of ability, but please don't doubt that I haven't been watching him for around five years, The first time I saw him he possibly still at school and if I'm not mistaken it was against Man. City in a cup final on a Saturday night, the night Arsenal beat Hull City in the FA cup final, we won 1-0, City were the much better team, our goalkeeper Russell Griffiths kept us in the game, MoM , he got released later on, The fact I watched one of our youth teams at Goodison when the cup final was on the box shows I'm interested in the kids at least

 

[Cameron Manning]

Depends what you class as a stinker I suppose. He wasn't giving the ball away every time he got it or anything, but he didn't really do anything at all to impact the game, so I would have to say he was poor. According to the club's own stats, he completed 5 forward passes, no successful dribbles and no shots. Allied to the fact he made no tackles or interceptions, you'd have to wonder what exactly he did to elevate him beyond stinker level.

And that's exactly the way I saw him in the game on Tuesday.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Shouldn't it be high for all our players? If a player is performing to a low standard, I honestly don't think age matter - they shouldn't play when we have better available. We haven't won anything of real worth for decades, if we want trophies we have to play our best team selection, not give underperforming youngsters a shot. Everton never seems to learn this, which is why we are beaten by "worse" teams year after year. Their best teams are better than our b-teams. Ergo we keep loosing these games, and its incredibly frustrating to watch.

The highlighted bit is the problem here. Our young kids are mostly playing because there is nobody better who is fit, or on the very odd occasion like Southampton, because senior players like Walcott and Siggy, who have played every game, are given a rest. The alternative to Tosun up front is DCL. The only current alternative to Morgan and Gana in midfield is Davies. The only alternative to an injured Coleman is Kenny. Holgate only played due to injuries.

If we had a fully fit squad the only young player who would be a regular starter is Richarlison. None of our other young players are ready to be regular starters for us because they are still learning the game, but they turn up and do their best, invariably better than half of the experienced players earning 3 or 4 times their salaries. In the ideal world the manager would be able to develop them, introducing them from the bench or cherry picking games for them to start in ensuring they'd be playing alongside senior pros to help them through. But this is Everton, so we throw them in anyway and fans like you expect them to perform like seasoned pros. So yes. Age does matter. They're not good enough for us yet and there's absolutely no valid reason why we should expect them to be. It's poor management by the club, coupled with a ridiculous run of injuries, that's put them in this situation.

I for one think that, on the whole, they've performed very well and should be applauded on here rather than vilified.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Just to make it clear I was stating he didn't look interested was in relation to the one particular game, the one versus Spurs, I don't know if you saw that game, if you did it's possible you might agree with me. I agree with most of what you say about Keiron, I just think it's a shame he get to grips with the fact that if he could put physicality into his game what a player he would be, he's still only young so maybe he can put a bit more into his game.

I thought you were talking generally, not just about that one game. No, I missed it unfortunately. Only saw the goals.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Don't we all want our young players to succeed, I honestly never like to criticise young players but when I do I think it is
constructive criticism, pointing their faults out, hoping they can improve those faults. I think those in charge of Keiron will have been telling him the same faults, so it is really up to Dowell himself to up his game, he can be a very good player with a great career ahead of him if he does.

You would be surprised

 

[Nyhus]

But this is Everton, so we throw them in anyway and fans like you expect them to perform like seasoned pros. So yes. Age does matter. They're not good enough for us yet and there's absolutely no valid reason why we should expect them to be.

Unless injuries, there's absolutely no valid reason why we should play them if they aren't good enough, yet we do. Therefore, when they play instead of seniors, I expect them to do a job, why else would they be in the running to start in the first place.

Im not talking about players like DCL, Davis or Kenny. They vary in their performances(natural with young players), but have all proven they can help the team.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Unless injuries, there's absolutely no valid reason why we should play them if they aren't good enough, yet we do. Therefore, when they play instead of seniors, I expect them to do a job, why else would they be in the running to start in the first place.

Im not talking about players like DCL, Davis or Kenny. They vary in their performances(natural with young players), but have all proven they can help the team.

So, if they play because of injury, you allow them some leeway. But if they play because the manager is trying to give them some experience whilst resting senior players, they get no leeway at all. That must be so difficult to keep on top of I'm surprised you know when to boo and when to cheer.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I think at worst Dowell will be one of those creative players who straddles the line between Championship and Prem and has a purple patch at some point that gets him a nice move.

But he really could be much more. Finding a way to get him there is the hard part.

 

[Lanolin]

So, if they play because of injury, you allow them some leeway. But if they play because the manager is trying to give them some experience whilst resting senior players, they get no leeway at all. That must be so difficult to keep on top of I'm surprised you know when to boo and when to cheer.

Who said anything about booing? Some very weird responses in here, accusing people of lying about going to games and booing players. Very unsavoury.

He’s exactly right, if a player is being picked on merit at 21/22 why should we not judge them the same as someone who’s 24? It makes no sense whatsoever. If a young lad is forced into action in an emergency before they’re ready then they get leeway, if they are being selected ahead of more experienced options then they get judged exactly the same.

 

[Nyhus]

So, if they play because of injury, you allow them some leeway. But if they play because the manager is trying to give them some experience whilst resting senior players, they get no leeway at all. That must be so difficult to keep on top of I'm surprised you know when to boo and when to cheer.

I never boo players, Im an Everton supporter, not a grinch.

 

[Philw]

Of course it doesn't make me a good judge of ability, but please don't doubt that I haven't been watching him for around five years, The first time I saw him he possibly still at school and if I'm not mistaken it was against Man. City in a cup final on a Saturday night, the night Arsenal beat Hull City in the FA cup final, we won 1-0, City were the much better team, our goalkeeper Russell Griffiths kept us in the game, MoM , he got released later on, The fact I watched one of our youth teams at Goodison when the cup final was on the box shows I'm interested in the kids at least

I wasn't intending to cast any doubt on this, just on other peoples (seemingly blind) faith in what some random person on the internet says.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I never boo players, Im an Everton supporter, not a grinch.

I know mate. It was just a (not very good) attempt at a funny remark by me.

I know this is the Dowell thread but if you go back to my original post that you replied to, I was referring to all of our young players and not just Kieran. I think it is clear that the vast majority of games started by our young players over the last couple of years has been down to injuries or the poor form of senior players like Schneiderlin, Keane, Williams and Tosun. There's not been that many occasions like Tuesday when players were rested.

I think the thing that most fans agree on is that all of our young players, except Richarlison, are not ready to start games regularly in the prem as they are all still developing. Where our opinions differ is whether, at this stage in their careers, they should be expected to be as good or influential as the senior players.