Just how good were “The Golden Generation”

[Walken]

aye, I've probably mentioned it in the forum before like: I was at the stadium for our 4-1 thrashing of England in WC 2010, pretty much the highest row so saw the formations of both teams clearly. England always had a rigid flat 4-4 (and then either 2 or 1-1). Germany had 3-5-2, then 4-4-2, then 5-3-2, then 3-4-3, 4-2-4, 5-4-1...just kept changing shape depending on the rhythm of the game. Was fascinating and a real football lesson.

Also surprising that a seasoned continental coach like Capello still stuck to this rigidness.

Capello strangely seemed to implode at the world cup, bottled in a way, calling in retired vets and such. That match was at last the realization that we were continuing with a moribund formation and style, about 8 years too late mind, I remember the arrogance of shearer and co in the studio before the game, a rude awaking indeed.

Proper German football that though, a mix of the old and the new, the physical and the artistic, more jupp heynekes than pep guardiola, perhaps a lesson for jogi low in that. I actually thought pepball was going to cost germany the 2014 world cup, fortunately schweinsteiger found his fitness and lahm reverted to his proper position, with Bastian giving them the physicality they were missing

 

[dholliday]

Capello strangely seemed to implode at the world cup, bottled in a way, calling in retired vets and such. That match was at last the realization that we were continuing with a moribund formation and style, about 8 years too late mind, I remember the arrogance of shearer and co in the studio before the game, a rude awaking indeed.

Proper German football that though, a mix of the old and the new, the physical and the artistic, more jupp heynekes than pep guardiola, perhaps a lesson for jogi low in that. I actually thought pepball was going to cost germany the 2014 world cup, fortunately schweinsteiger found his fitness and lahm reverted to his proper position, with Bastian giving them the physicality they were missing

aye, agree with all that, especially the bold bit, very perceptive mate considering you're not German yourself. Schweini was the very definition of heroic in that final. Getting goosepimps just thinking about it (sorry!).

We weren't that bad in WM 2018, had loads of shots (more than England had in 7 games) so a bit unlucky, but honestly I laughed when Korea rampaged to those two late goals. I fully recognise we Germany-fans have been spoilt so an early-out wasn't so bad to accept. It's fair for Löw to have one last crack at the Euros, but as you imply he's got a lot of thinking to do.

 

[Wayno]

Wales got to the semis of the last Euros, therefore they must be equally awesome, right? Oh, 'cept they failed to qualify for the World Cup.

Have you had a head injury today or something?

What an absolutely bizzare argument you’re having with nobody.

“England got out the group and no further , the semi final doesn’t count because wales got to the semis of the Euro’s”

lol

 

[Walken]

aye, agree with all that, especially the bold bit, very perceptive mate considering you're not German yourself. Schweini was the very definition of heroic in that final. Getting goosepimps just thinking about it (sorry!).

We weren't that bad in WM 2018, had loads of shots (more than England had in 7 games) so a bit unlucky, but honestly I laughed when Korea rampaged to those two late goals. I fully recognise we Germany-fans have been spoilt so an early-out wasn't so bad to accept. It's fair for Löw to have one last crack at the Euros, but as you imply he's got a lot of thinking to do.

I was working for the wurth family in 2014 so had some help with the german perspective, while the european press spoke of Kroos as the key influence, my german friends spoke of schweinsteiger

 

[Minimeister]

Hopefully there are players like that on the way from the youth setup: Sancho (who I think will be a global star), Foden, Mount, Sessegnon, Lookman, Hudson-Odoi etc. Hopefully the likes of Chalobah, Lewis Cook, Harry Winks will be able to displace Henderson form the side before the next Euros.

Some real quality coming through and with the fantastic tournament results the youth teams have had recently then the future looks good. Just need those players to get plenty of playing time in the premier league.

 

[Rook]

There's a good argument that the cult of LFC ruined England's golden generation. The hype surrounding Gerrard was massive and made him undroppable from a media perspective, but even most non-blues felt he was the weak link in that midfield.

Everyone agrees Lampard was a consistent world class performer, & the specific qualities of Scholes & Beckham (if played in the right position) have always been clear. Gerrard...apart from bright moments here & there, was always the wrong fit in that midfield as he didn't bring a consistent game with him. Having a water-carrier midfielder who just did his job without grand designs on Hollywood moments would've brought essential balance and England might've actually won a tournament during those Sven years.

you needed a gameplan and lots of time in training to get the most out of Gerrard. Because of his pace he probably would have been a good 66th min sub (for say Lampard). Its just even though everyone freaking knew both he and Lampard couldn't mix (especially w/ 2 forwards) the media had a total meltdown the few occasions he was left out. England back then was every Everton last year. Sure the best 10 outfielders were pretty talented but so many positions overlapped that if you shoehorned all your best guys on the pitch it was @#%^

 

[Gwladys St. Glory]

Individually, pretty decent...collectively, a 'kin shambles.

 

[hallamblue]

Issue for England has been the manager. We decided to go fro a foreign coach to get away from a lack of tactical flexibility, and then appointed Sven and Capello, both famous for being rigid. If we'd had a manager with an ounce of nous we would have been ok. Also, the manager never had the bottle to drop Gerrard and play a more disciplined CDM to allow Lampard the freedom he had for Chelsea. The FA has always been a stumbling block for England.

 

[chrissyjack]

Discussing this topic in work , earlier . Imagine Clough and Taylor in their prime managing this lot . They wouldn’t have been scared to drop anybody .

 

[hallamblue]

Discussing this topic in work , earlier . Imagine Clough and Taylor in their prime managing this lot . They wouldn’t have been scared to drop anybody .

That kind of team spirit would certainly have helped. I think the lack of team ethic held them back.

 

[chrissyjack]

That kind of team spirit would certainly have helped. I think the lack of team ethic held them back.

This current squad seem to be representing England . The old lot were representing their clubs . We now appear to have a team

 

[jackyboy]

Didn't we always play 4-4-2 because we tried to get Owen and Rooney both playing?

 

[Billy Dean]

Didn't we always play 4-4-2 because we tried to get Owen and Rooney both playing?

I think it was to get all of them playing. Strikers and midfielders.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Issue for England has been the manager. We decided to go fro a foreign coach to get away from a lack of tactical flexibility, and then appointed Sven and Capello, both famous for being rigid. If we'd had a manager with an ounce of nous we would have been ok. Also, the manager never had the bottle to drop Gerrard and play a more disciplined CDM to allow Lampard the freedom he had for Chelsea. The FA has always been a stumbling block for England.

It was a clash of talents really wasn't it? In the 2006 world cup Hargreaves was sat behind Gerrard and Lampard, which had a chance of working, but it meant Rooney was up front on his own. Had they gone 4-3-3, that might have worked, but the elephant in the room was Beckham, who wasn't someone who could play up top in a wide position. Had they gone Cole - Rooney sat in behind Owen, with Gerrard, Lampard and Hargreaves behind, then that's not bad, but just as Gerrard couldn't be dropped, neither could Beckham.

 

[Billy Dean]

It was a clash of talents really wasn't it? In the 2006 world cup Hargreaves was sat behind Gerrard and Lampard, which had a chance of working, but it meant Rooney was up front on his own. Had they gone 4-3-3, that might have worked, but the elephant in the room was Beckham, who wasn't someone who could play up top in a wide position. Had they gone Cole - Rooney sat in behind Owen, with Gerrard, Lampard and Hargreaves behind, then that's not bad, but just as Gerrard couldn't be dropped, neither could Beckham.

Yep. And a manager not brave enough to be flexible and rotate them.